EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) for Home Use

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#3118291 20-Aug-2023 17:35

@jonathan18 Yep just asked him, here you go: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004861174792.html

He has used it a few times now and it works well.

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jonathan18

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#3118297 20-Aug-2023 17:44

michaelmurfy:

@jonathan18 Yep just asked him, here you go: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004861174792.html

He has used it a few times now and it works well.

Brilliant - thanks, Michael, and also to your colleague. Much appreciated.

Edit: damn, out of stock with that seller, but can see if I can find another one selling the same product.

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#3118300 20-Aug-2023 18:27

cthombor:

SomeoneSomewhere:

A Certificate of Compliance (and I'm pretty sure ESC too) is only relevant to installations. I don't think a vehicle-to-load adapter would constitute an installation, though it could perhaps be assembled into part of one.

Compliance with ASNZS 3112 and by reference ASNZS 3760 would likely be what's necessary for worksites - this is not too dissimilar from the Lifeguards/EPODs manufactured by Jacksons in that respect.

A socket designed to fit multiple types of plugs is basically an automatic failure - they fit no single type properly.

I agree that it's hard to imagine an adapter as an "installation"! However as you say it could be a part of an installation e.g. if you stay at a caravan park which insists on a CoC, and somebody really narky (or very clued-in about electrical safety ;-) notices that you have run a lead from your Hyundai's V2L into your tent. On rare occasions I have been asked for the CoC on my e-NV200 e-motorhome, when checking into a caravan park.

I'm very intrigued by your "automatic failure" comment! In your experience, has a WorkSafe inspector ever issued a fail to a site because it has an AS/NZS 3112-15A socket? I can readily imagine a fail for a site with a CPCS-CCC socket (https://www.wall-switchs.com/8808.html), but has WorkSafe made some public statement that (as of some date) the use of AS/NZS 3112-15A is verboten at the workplace???

And... after a bit more internet research, I discover that what's *really* required at a caravan park is a WoEF I'll now root around in the paperwork I received, a few years ago, from the guy who wired up my e-NV200... but anyway it has to be renewed every four years! Learn something every day! https://www.worksafe.govt.nz/topic-and-industry/energy-safety/electrical-and-gas-safety-requirements-for-caravan-motorhome-and-boating/

My dumb - I meant ASNZS 3012, for construction/demolition sites. It more-or-less states that, even though the system may be assembled from kitset plug-and-socket pieces, it still counts as an installation and must be designed and installed competently.

15A 3112 sockets are fine in the workplace. The types of socket that fit a UK, US, EU, NZ etc. plug are not.

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#3118305 20-Aug-2023 18:49

jonathan18: Thanks for the posts and advice - useful stuff.

Just a couple of points: this is for an MG, as opposed to a Hyundai. Also, I just gave that AE item as a rough example, not a particular product I was looking to buy. If I was to buy from AE, I’d rather get a specific product that others have reported as decent quality.

Speaking of which - @michaelmurfy, would there be any chance you could ask your colleague as to the specific type (even model/seller) they bought for their MG? Thanks, if feasible.

In the end, I’m happy with a single power point, and can look to get something for better waterproofing if it’s on a short or no cable.

Hi Jonathan, sorry I had somehow gotten onto Hyundai and "forgot" that you were asking about V2L on an MG.

However: I can't see why it would matter in the least (except for optics) whether a V2L adapter sports MG branding, Hyundai branding, SAIC branding, BYD branding, or the house brand (Duosida) of the OEM (Zhangjiagang Uchen New Energy, https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Duosida-supply-type-2-adapter-type_1600878052716.html) which I'm pretty sure is manufacturing most of the high-quality V2L adapters I find online -- with the likely exception of the Hyundai-branded one (with an EU-style socket) which is really spendy at EUR 428 in Belgium! https://accessoires-kia.be/ev6/comfort/CVH68AK0U0/. There's also something from https://czgyxny.en.alibaba.com/, which looks a bit shonkier: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/V2D-V2L-Adapter-Vehicle-With-Type_1600805611423.html.

See https://www.mgevs.com/threads/vehicle-to-load-v2l-any-information-or-first-hand-experiences.4810/ for a UK-centric discussion of V2L on the MG ZS EV.

A highly-reputable US firm named Lectron is selling a unit (https://ev-lectron.com/collections/ev-adapters/products/lectron-v2l-adapter-compatible-with-hyundai-ioniq-5-vehicle-to-load-adapter-power-your-devices-with-your-ioniq-5-black-1-pack?sscid=81k7_n3uno&) which closely resembles https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Duosida-supply-byd-v2l-adapter-Ioniq_1600882934871.html. However (unsurprisingly) this unit is fitted with a US NEMA-15 plug.

As far as I can tell, Zhangjiagang Uchen New Energy is not as yet offering a Duosida-branded V2L adapter with an AS/NZS 3112 socket. I'd pick this to happen within the next year or three, as all it would take is for some entrepreneurial person who registers (as a retailer) with Alibaba, to pay in advance for a shipment, and to resell them into the local market. If the entrepreneur already has a brand (e.g. OEM Audio's EVPower line, see https://evpower.co.nz/product/search?search=V2L) they could pay a bit more (and place a larger order) to have Changzhou GoodEV put their brandname on the V2L adapter. However any reputable NZ retailer would do whatever it takes to get an SDOC for the unit... and possibly that's the sticking point? Getting it classed as "medium risk" might be hard-yards, for all I know.

Anyway, you might want to contact OEM Audio to ask if they have any plans to sell V2L adapters into the NZ market.

And you might just give up on getting anything fancier than a V2L adapter which has been assembled by fitting a Type-2 EV plug to an extension lead or powerboard. If I were in the market for one of these, I'd be looking very carefully at the grommet on the lead running from the Type-2 EV plug. Ideally it'd be tested for ingress protection, and the assembly would be rated IP44 i.e. "splashproof". Yeah right, as if anyone who fits a new "plug" onto a mass-market extension lead or powerboard is gonna go through all the drama and expense of getting an IP rating on their assemblage!

Interesting times... still early days for V2L! There are safety questions to be sorted by each country's regulatory systems, in part because there are many different grounding (earthing) systems. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system. I dunno how much progress the AS/NZ regulators have made to date on V2L.

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#3118485 21-Aug-2023 12:51

jonathan18:

My questions relate to V2L adapters/cables (which I thought connects better to this thread than the general EV one)…

My partner’s getting a car that has V2L capabilities; given we had our emergency generator stolen out of the garage a few years back, I’m happy to invest in a V2L adapter to add to our emergency kit (plus perhaps make an espresso somewhere in the wops!). The OEM adapter is $300, which I’m happy to pay but I also thought I’d look at what else may be available, given that’s a short cable with a single plug (I get I can use a multi box).

Some members of the NZ MG FB group have gone with adapters from TM; I’m assuming they’re like this one (if they had one for MG/AU plug in stock!), but I’m a bit dubious about buying such an item from there - what’s the legal status of using such a product, and would it likely cause an insurance issue if something went wrong when using it (even if it wasn’t the cause)?

About the only NZ-supplied alternative that I’ve found is this one, produced by an electrician in Akld; it has the advantage of a longer cable (plus uses a multibox): https://www.trademe.co.nz/trade-me-motors/car-parts-accessories/other-accessories/auction-4275582882.htm

Has anyone got experience with non-OEM V2L adapters, or care to comment on any options including those above? Or am I best/safest to just stick to the OEM product?

Thanks in advance.

For a bit of comic relief: here's a ridiculously-expensive OEM V2L adapter carrying Hyundai branding: https://www.factoryhyundaipartsonline.com/oem-parts/hyundai-vehicle-to-load-adapter-connector-916b1gi020?c=az0x . It'll have a Type 2 plug so would work fine in your MG; but it has a US-style NEMA-15 socket so would fail a Worksafe inspection, and you'd have to use a travel-adapter (adding additional safety hazards) in order to power an NZ appliance. But just look at the wonderful price! Now 30% off, wow, only USD 579.48 plus your shipping costs and GST. An amazingly high price for a unit with some very rudimentary internal contents (just a resistor to initiate a Type-2 session with an appropriate amperage limit), some flashy molding, the Hyundai branding, and ... best of all, without *any* indication (AFAIK) of its IP rating or even of the UL certification that would be a routine expectation of any liability-insurance cover in the USA. (Some bloggish commentary on the lack of UL certification at https://www.reddit.com/r/Ioniq5/comments/yya3fv/just_got_the_lectron_v2l_adapter_proscons_vs/)

BTW the advertisement of https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005004605560984.html claims an IP54 rating but I'd be astounded if that applied to the whole assembly. It might apply to the Type 2 plug when used in conjunction with cabling of the required diameter to fit snugly to its sealing grommet. Definitely not something I'd be willing to use in wet weather, especially if its apparently cheap-as-chips plugboard is ever exposed to the elements.

And here's a UK unit that plausibly has IP44 rating: https://evcables.com/products/hyundai-kia-vehicle-to-load-v2l-discharge-cable . Passes my visual inspection -- the cabling looks suitable for fitting to a type-2 plug. The price is right, only 116 Euros ;-) An IMHO entirely appropriate warning:

Risks of charging in the rain?

Water can still get into the plug and charging socket during the inserting and removing of the plug from the car. In fact, as soon as you open the charge port or unplug your car, the rain will get onto the pins and stay there until the next time you charge.

siyuan

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#3118942 22-Aug-2023 10:27

I bought this V2L cable for mor my dad's MG ZS EV, but he hasn't tried it yet, so not sure if it works. I did ask the seller to include NZ/AU plug, but I got travel plug instead, which is fine I guess. Next time I'm over at his place, I'll try it out and let you know if it works.

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cthombor

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#3118985 22-Aug-2023 13:02

siyuan:

I bought this V2L cable for mor my dad's MG ZS EV, but he hasn't tried it yet, so not sure if it works. I did ask the seller to include NZ/AU plug, but I got travel plug instead, which is fine I guess. Next time I'm over at his place, I'll try it out and let you know if it works.

I'd expect this socket & plug combination to work in dry weather, but only if your Dad's ZS EV is the long-range (big-battery) spec.

I see a note on the vendor's webpage: "2023 mg zs ev (with small battery (50,3 kWh)) not anymore compatible with V2L, only 69,9 kWh battery has V2L,pls double check your car before you make order."

The good news for you, if neither you nor your Dad can figure out how to persuade his MG ZS EV to deliver power reliably to this adapter, is that the vendor was trustworthy enough (or was pressured enough by AliExpress) to issue a refund to someone who left a comment on the vendor's webpage 8 August: "does not work on 2023 mg zs ev 50kw battery pack. full refunded by aliexpress"

Re use in wet weather: I would advise strongly against this. The vendor's webpage makes a vague claim of "IP65", but that's completely unbelievable given the 2-socket plugboard -- which may not even be safe to use when its use is restricted to "drier or more sheltered areas where they may be infrequently exposed to moisture, either indoors or outdoors." (https://www.northern-connectors.co.uk/news/what-does-ip-44-mean-understanding-the-importance-of-ingress-protection-ratings ) . IP44 would be possible for this assemblage *if* there are "splashproof" grommets or seals at both ends of the cable, and if the 2-socket plugboard is rated IP44.

IP65 gear is available. For example: all public fastchargers are rated IP65, see https://tritiumcharging.com/what-is-ip65-and-why-is-it-important/. However IP65 fittings are expensive and bulky -- and your Dad is very unlikely to have any electrical gear that's rated IP65.

It'd be unrealistic to aim for IP65 in a V2L adapter that connects to a type-2 socket on the side of an EV -- because, as pointed out in the long list of safety precautions for Hyundai NZ V2L: you should "... only use electrical equipment with a waterproof function/rating or use it in a waterproof environment. Do Not use in environments with rain or high humidity." (https://www.hyundai.co.nz/v2l )

All to say that I'm sure this adapter will be really useful to your Dad -- if you can get it to work on his car -- but rather hazardous in wet weather.

siyuan

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#3118996 22-Aug-2023 13:45

cthombor:

I'd expect this socket & plug combination to work in dry weather, but only if your Dad's ZS EV is the long-range (big-battery) spec.

I see a note on the vendor's webpage: "2023 mg zs ev (with small battery (50,3 kWh)) not anymore compatible with V2L, only 69,9 kWh battery has V2L,pls double check your car before you make order."

The good news for you, if neither you nor your Dad can figure out how to persuade his MG ZS EV to deliver power reliably to this adapter, is that the vendor was trustworthy enough (or was pressured enough by AliExpress) to issue a refund to someone who left a comment on the vendor's webpage 8 August: "does not work on 2023 mg zs ev 50kw battery pack. full refunded by aliexpress"

Re use in wet weather: I would advise strongly against this. The vendor's webpage makes a vague claim of "IP65", but that's completely unbelievable given the 2-socket plugboard -- which may not even be safe to use when its use is restricted to "drier or more sheltered areas where they may be infrequently exposed to moisture, either indoors or outdoors." (https://www.northern-connectors.co.uk/news/what-does-ip-44-mean-understanding-the-importance-of-ingress-protection-ratings ) . IP44 would be possible for this assemblage *if* there are "splashproof" grommets or seals at both ends of the cable, and if the 2-socket plugboard is rated IP44.

IP65 gear is available. For example: all public fastchargers are rated IP65, see https://tritiumcharging.com/what-is-ip65-and-why-is-it-important/. However IP65 fittings are expensive and bulky -- and your Dad is very unlikely to have any electrical gear that's rated IP65.

It'd be unrealistic to aim for IP65 in a V2L adapter that connects to a type-2 socket on the side of an EV -- because, as pointed out in the long list of safety precautions for Hyundai NZ V2L: you should "... only use electrical equipment with a waterproof function/rating or use it in a waterproof environment. Do Not use in environments with rain or high humidity." (https://www.hyundai.co.nz/v2l )

All to say that I'm sure this adapter will be really useful to your Dad -- if you can get it to work on his car -- but rather hazardous in wet weather.

Some good points, I would never use it in wet (as is) anyway. If I have to, I'm sure I can come up with ways to water proof the plug side, e.g. putting it inside an elevated box.

I just looked up the official NZ MG spec for the MG ZS EV Excite model, luckily it does say V2L is supported. So if V2L turns out to be not supported, then I'm going to have some serious words with the dealer.

MG ZS EV EXCITE

FROM$49,990RECOMMENDED RETAIL PRICE (+ORC)*MG $2,000 Rebate Top Up^
Eligible for $7,015 Clean Car Discount

KEY FEATURES:

3 Driving Modes (Eco, Normal, Sport)
3 Regenerative Braking Modes(1,2,3)
Full electric liquid-cooled, lithium-ion battery
Satellite Navigation
Leather trimmed steering wheel with contrast stitching & perforation detail
Push Button Start
i-SMART connectivity
360 View Camera
LED daytime running lights
Fabric Seats
Driver's 6 way Manually Adjustable Seat
Front Centre Armrest with Storage
10.1" Multi-function colour touch screen Apple CarPlay & Android AUTO
MG Pilot Driver Safety Technology ~
Vehicle To Load Functionality (V2L)
17" 'Propeller' alloy wheel aero cover
Range of up to 320km (WLTP)‡

jonathan18

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#3119009 22-Aug-2023 14:48

Here's another option for a V2L adapter; this time Aus-made. Reasonable price - the cheapest (1m cable; single socket) is $155 AU including shipping to NZ: https://evchargers.com.au/product/v2l-cable/

@cthombor - interested in your take on this model, and similarly the NZ-made one for sale on TM (https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/car-parts-accessories/other-accessories/listing/4286662074?bof=kR9BcUc9)

Thanks!

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#3119025 22-Aug-2023 15:59

jonathan18:

Here's another option for a V2L adapter; this time Aus-made. Reasonable price - the cheapest (1m cable; single socket) is $155 AU including shipping to NZ: https://evchargers.com.au/product/v2l-cable/

@cthombor - interested in your take on this model, and similarly the NZ-made one for sale on TM (https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/car-parts-accessories/other-accessories/listing/4286662074?bof=kR9BcUc9)

Thanks!

That Aus-made one is the best I have seen. The socket looks like it'd mate with a Clipsal 56 3-flat pin 10A plug (https://www.clipsal.com/products/detail?CatNo=56P310&itemno=56P310-EO); but at this price the assembler will almost surely be using a knockoff of the Clipsal 56 socket, so I wouldn't be confident of the quality of its build and quality-control (especially of the all-important plating on the contacts inside the socket). You could stress-test the socket quality by plugging a 10A EVSE (or a 2kW space-heater) into it, to see if the socket & plug get more than a bit warm after 15 minutes. I rather doubt you'd get an SDoC from this vendor but it wouldn't hurt to ask! There's also a question in my mind of quality-control -- looks like a low-volume item which might be assembled only after an order comes in, rather than something assembled by a manufacturer which is certified to ISO 9001.... then again, it might be assembled in a high-quality Chinese factory, and being sold into Oz by a web-retailer? Despite these misgivings : I'd say it's a nice design which might even qualify for IP65 -- if it were tested. Much will depend on the grommets sealing the two ends of the cable with the Type2 plug at one end and the Clipsal-ish socket at the other end. Your Dad may not have any gear with a Clipsal 56 10A plug but it's not hard to imagine someone fitting one of these to an 8A EVSE. (It would be outside WorkSafe recommendations to have a 10A EVSE fitted with a 10A plug, or even with a 15A plug that isn't monitored for over-temperature by the EVSE.)

I'm unimpressed with the use of an indoor Stanley-branded 3-socket powerboard being fitted to a Type2 plug, as is being sold through TradeMe. The cable on the Stanley powerboard may not even be the right diameter to be securely attached to the plug. I'd not touch that one with the veritable (well-insulated) bargepole if it were wet.

jonathan18

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#3119066 22-Aug-2023 18:22

Thanks for another comprehensive analysis.

The Aus website doesn’t state that if it’s compatible with the MG4; I’ve asked them to confirm, but I’m sure I read here (or elsewhere) that technically any adapter should work with any V2L-enabled car, or did I interpret that incorrectly? (Either way I’d rather have them confirm this just to be sure!)

Is the type of socket going to be fine for general use? I’m unlikely to be running a 2000w heater for a long time (though get your point that it’s essentially a stress test); just needing to ensure we can run key things off it in an emergency - LED lights, microwave, jug and (most importantly) espresso machine and grinder! (I think you’ve mixed me up with siyuan, whose father has the ZS; I’m buying this for my wife’s yet-to-arrive MG4.)

Interesting thoughts on the NZ made one; they’ve also reported they could make a single socket version but it wouldn’t cost less. At this point, the Aus product is my likely purchase.

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#3119221 23-Aug-2023 07:17

jonathan18:

My questions relate to V2L adapters/cables (which I thought connects better to this thread than the general EV one)…

Your question seems to have hijacked the EVSE thread.

Is it worth starting a dedicated thread for V2L equipment, so people can focus on in vs out?

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#3127985 15-Sep-2023 05:58

Here’s a dumb thing - my wife’s new EV arrives in the next week or so and I assumed she’d carry on using her existing EVSE, which has a 16A caravan plug (she parks/charges in a driveway where this is the source of power). Umm, forgot it’s a Type 1 and the new car’s Type 2!

I get I could get a T1>T2 adapter, but the standard barrel type seems like it’ll put additional strain on the port. I think I’ve found an adapter which comes with 1m of cable, and that’ll manage the strain problem and it’s certainly cheaper than a whole new EVSE - but as we’re charging outside I’m thinking that’s not necessarily a great thing to add to the mix - any thoughts on this?

Another option could be to use my Tesla portable charger with the caravan tail, but the cable’s on the short side - really needing 7-8 metres to safely reach the socket (longer=better).

So probably looking for a replacement 16A caravan plug-equipped portable Type 2 EVSE, so keen on any recommendations and advice. (I assume any Type 2 charger would work with any brand of car?)

We’ve been using an OEM Audio one for years and it’s held up really well, so their Type 2 version is a possibility. This one (brand unknown) could be another option.

Thanks for any ideas.

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#3128000 15-Sep-2023 07:23

Yeah I used two different OEM Audio chargers with the Leaf for years and they were both solid.

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#3128073 15-Sep-2023 10:34

Yeah, the OEM Audio one is $545 from Drive EV at the moment, which is cheaper than from OEM itself ($599); that said, I’m tempted by that unit from Smart EV Chargers for $470. The former is 8m, the latter 7m - but either is fine as I’ve measured the current OEM Audio as 6m. Annoyingly, both have a short lead from plug to unit.

A key advantage of the OEM Audio unit is they also sell a wall bracket, but I imagine I may be able to find a bracket to be able to hold the Smart EV model. About time we sorted out a more permanent attachment after nearly five years…

Any other options people are aware of?

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