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Scott3:
- Fuel systems exist to serve their normal user group. I don't really think I have any claim to Jet A1 fuel.
Well, not with that attitude, anyway.
iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!
These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.
mattwnz:
i wonder if NZ is still planning this LNG backup power and storage solution to fix the broken electricity market…. Self sufficient hydro power solutions look like a far better option right now. I think this whole thing slow exactly why we shouldn’t be relying on imports for NZs security of services and products we need. Privatisation and transfer of ownership overseas of nz businesses has some major pitfalls
Don't know, but basically pray for rain...
Because it will cost a big fortune to get Methanex to sell gas back to the network this winter...
The global spot methanol price is up 25% in line with LNG prices ( has likely moved even higher now) so Methanex will be creaming it as their NZ GAS feedstock price is isolated from the world price...
If Greenpeace hadn't appealed the Ballance Wind Turbines they would likely be generating H2 by now, getting more demand off Natural gas....
But here we are....
Wheelbarrow01:
It was interesting last night when I went out to the supermarket around 8pm to pick up a few things.
I live is a fairly quiet suburb of Christchurch, yet I noticed a huge amount of traffic around - far more than usual for that hour of the night. It soon became obvious that every man and his dog was out hunting for fuel. The line at the NPD station on Wairakei Rd was spilling out onto - and quite a ways along - the road.
I assume people watched the 6pm news that featured live on the spot reporting from multiple fuel stations around the motu complete with vision of queues. I suspect potentially rallied people to head out and join the fun....
Someone in our local Facebook group posted a picture of the person in front of them filling 6 obviously brand new 20 litre diesel jerry cans all standing up like soldiers in the back of their SUV.
I'm starting to feel that by heading overseas on Monday week, I won't have to witness the ridiculousness that unfolds in NZ over the next few weeks...
mattwnz:
i wonder if NZ is still planning this LNG backup power and storage solution to fix the broken electricity market…. Self sufficient hydro power solutions look like a far better option right now. I think this whole thing shows exactly why we shouldn’t be relying on imports for NZs security of services and products we need. Privatisation and transfer of ownership overseas of nz businesses has some major pitfalls
Yes, they are. I emailed the PM about a week after this all kicked off and got back a response about how it was Labour's fault and they remain committed to an LNG terminal which will solve all our problems --
Kia ora Simon,
Thank you for your email to the Prime Minister, Rt Hon Christopher Luxon.
Labour’s oil and gas ban increased energy prices, cut jobs, and increased New Zealand reliance on overseas coal. This means that even though New Zealand is experiencing an electricity generation boom, a rapidly declining gas supply has left our electricity sector exposed during dry years.
That is why the National-led Government will contract to build a liquefied natural gas (LNG) import facility in Taranaki in a critical step to strengthen New Zealand’s energy security and support economic growth. Having this facility is expected to save Kiwis around $265 million per annum, or around $50 per household by reducing price spikes and lowering the risk premium built into power bills.
It is all part of National’s plan to fix the basics and build the future.
Thank you once again for taking the time to write; it is appreciated.
Ngā mihi nui
iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!
These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.
wellygary:
mattwnz:
i wonder if NZ is still planning this LNG backup power and storage solution to fix the broken electricity market…. Self sufficient hydro power solutions look like a far better option right now. I think this whole thing slow exactly why we shouldn’t be relying on imports for NZs security of services and products we need. Privatisation and transfer of ownership overseas of nz businesses has some major pitfalls
Don't know, but basically pray for rain...
Because it will cost a big fortune to get Methanex to sell gas back to the network this winter...
The global spot methanol price is up 25% in line with LNG prices ( has likely moved even higher now) so Methanex will be creaming it as their NZ GAS feedstock price is isolated from the world price...
If Greenpeace hadn't appealed the Ballance Wind Turbines they would likely be generating H2 by now, getting more demand off Natural gas....
But here we are....

We have heaps of renewables getting built at the moment, but still could do with more. Would rather see the $2.7b go that route, rather than leasing some gear for 15 years. The LNG proposal doesn't solve anything long term.
Scott3:
We have heaps of renewables getting built at the moment, but still could do with more. Would rather see the $2.7b go that route, rather than leasing some gear for 15 years. The LNG proposal doesn't solve anything long term.
$2.7 billion would buy you 12 130MW solar farms churning out 216Gwh each or @2592Gwh annually (or around 5% of NZ's current generation)
https://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/news-and-events/meridian-to-proceed-with-227m-ruakaka-solar-farm
Unfortunately, that's only just enough to cover the new 280MW data centre in southland,...
wellygary:
$2.7 billion would buy you 12 130MW solar farms churning out 216Gwh each or @2592Gwh annually (or around 5% of NZ's current generation)
https://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/news-and-events/meridian-to-proceed-with-227m-ruakaka-solar-farm
Unfortunately, that's only just enough to cover the new 280MW data centre in southland,...
isn’t that new AI data centre only going to use power from the hydro station that was built for the smelter where there is an oversupply of electricity ? That is another can of worms though, seems to be very little benefit to NZ imo, apart from the initial short term one from building it.
wellygary:
Scott3:
We have heaps of renewables getting built at the moment, but still could do with more. Would rather see the $2.7b go that route, rather than leasing some gear for 15 years. The LNG proposal doesn't solve anything long term.
$2.7 billion would buy you 12 130MW solar farms churning out 216Gwh each or @2592Gwh annually (or around 5% of NZ's current generation)
https://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/news-and-events/meridian-to-proceed-with-227m-ruakaka-solar-farm
Unfortunately, that's only just enough to cover the new 280MW data centre in southland,...
Don't confuse nameplate capacity with what gets delivered.
Otautahi Christchurch
mattwnz:
isn’t that new AI data centre only going to use power from the hydro station that was built for the smelter where there is an oversupply of electricity ? That is another can of worms though, seems to be very little benefit to NZ imo, apart from the initial short term one from building it.
Tiwai consumes pretty much all of Manapouri's annual output @`~5000Gwh,,
While the 20 year contract (24-44) sees some farmed out to Mercury and contact, from a network point of view there is no other major generation in that part of the world, all the electrons will be coming from Manapouri
+ they are thinking of bringing the 4th potline back on line which needs another 50MW ( 400Gwh)
mattwnz:
isn’t that new AI data centre only going to use power from the hydro station that was built for the smelter where there is an oversupply of electricity ? That is another can of worms though, seems to be very little benefit to NZ imo, apart from the initial short term one from building it.
I'm suspecting the AI project will have intentions of positioning itself in the box seat as a recipient of Manapouri's output if/when Tiwai moves out of the picture. As electricity supply and pricing comes under pressure again in the case of a dry year the robustness of Tiwai's long term electricity contract will again be put to the test and if it falls over the AI datacentre will be the winner.
https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/
SaltyNZ:
Yes, they are. I emailed the PM about a week after this all kicked off and got back a response about how it was Labour's fault and they remain committed to an LNG terminal which will solve all our problems --
Kia ora Simon,
Thank you for your email to the Prime Minister, Rt Hon Christopher Luxon.
Labour’s oil and gas ban increased energy prices, cut jobs, and increased New Zealand reliance on overseas coal. This means that even though New Zealand is experiencing an electricity generation boom, a rapidly declining gas supply has left our electricity sector exposed during dry years.
That is why the National-led Government will contract to build a liquefied natural gas (LNG) import facility in Taranaki in a critical step to strengthen New Zealand’s energy security and support economic growth. Having this facility is expected to save Kiwis around $265 million per annum, or around $50 per household by reducing price spikes and lowering the risk premium built into power bills.
It is all part of National’s plan to fix the basics and build the future.
Thank you once again for taking the time to write; it is appreciated.
Ngā mihi nui
That reply is based on disinformation in regards to Labour's (offshore exploration) oil and gas ban but in any case the reasoning behind the economics of importing LNG hasn't aged well following the events of the past couple of weeks.
https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/
well maybe the AI datacentre should be required to show that it can source the power it needs first or generate its own power from solar and wind. I noticed IKEA in some parts of the world have their own large wind turbines near the store to generate power for it. As we move to EVs and increase our population largely via immigration we are going to need a lot more generation and storage of that energy
HarmLessSolutions:
mattwnz:
isn’t that new AI data centre only going to use power from the hydro station that was built for the smelter where there is an oversupply of electricity ? That is another can of worms though, seems to be very little benefit to NZ imo, apart from the initial short term one from building it.
I'm suspecting the AI project will have intentions of positioning itself in the box seat as a recipient of Manapouri's output if/when Tiwai moves out of the picture. As electricity supply and pricing comes under pressure again in the case of a dry year the robustness of Tiwai's long term electricity contract will again be put to the test and if it falls over the AI datacentre will be the winner.
At current international Aluminium prices, the Smelter is going nowhere....
When they threatened to walk in 2020 is was below $1500USD/tonne, we're now double that, and with the current long term disruption to gas in the mid east there is a Chunk of Aluminum production that just got very expensive or or non-existent ( UAE and Bahrain are 6% global production alone)

wellygary:
Scott3:
We have heaps of renewables getting built at the moment, but still could do with more. Would rather see the $2.7b go that route, rather than leasing some gear for 15 years. The LNG proposal doesn't solve anything long term.
$2.7 billion would buy you 12 130MW solar farms churning out 216Gwh each or @2592Gwh annually (or around 5% of NZ's current generation)
https://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/news-and-events/meridian-to-proceed-with-227m-ruakaka-solar-farm
Unfortunately, that's only just enough to cover the new 280MW data centre in southland,...
Avoid paying to much attention to that data center. The don't have funding to actually build anything.
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