Repairing a car could soon become "copyright violation"

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Repairing a car could soon become "copyright violation"

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#1288826 21-Apr-2015 21:58

KiwiNZ:
joker97: would buying Japanese and Korean (and god forbid Chinese) -made cars be exempt?

either way the TPPA is crazy.

We will all be buying Chinese cars soon. Remember what was said about the Japanese cars in the 60's and early 70's and the Korean cars in the 80's and 90's

Maybe, but they really, really need to stop copying western design.

This:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/guangzhou-motor-show/land-rover-complain-about-chinese-copy-range-rover-evoque

And This:
http://jalopnik.com/all-the-shameless-chinese-car-knockoffs-at-the-shanghai-1699019538

gzt

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#1288846 21-Apr-2015 22:51

Because? : )

UncleArthur

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#1288848 21-Apr-2015 22:54

I can't help but wonder if the car industry trying to apply the DCMA to their business is a breach of the DCMA?
The DCMA is intellectual property of the ICT, and Media industries...
Automakers, I'm sorry, but if you want to do something like this you will need to come up with your own ideas.
Just copying someone else's work like this is at worst illegal, and at best morally questionable.

You should be ashamed of yourselves for doing the very thing you are purporting to be trying to prevent in your pursuit to prevent it.

How you can expect us to take your copyright proposal seriously when that very proposal is in breach of copyright.

See how silly it gets?

K thanks bye.

Homer: "Son, you tried and you failed....the lesson is...never try"

jpoc

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#1288916 22-Apr-2015 08:06

heylinb4nz: Only in the USA....I wonder how long the sheeple will tolerate the crap that big corporations inflict to protect their obscene profits. I know for a fact that every car I have flashed and replaced the ECU on has performed better and used less fuel.

Good luck on trying to enforce it.

I would also expect that each of those reflashed cards has produced substantially higher levels of pollution. Stock ECU mappings are optimised for emission controls not performance or economy and so it is easy for tuners and owners who lack scruples to re-map for a combination of performance and economy at the expense of pollution.

mdooher

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#1288929 22-Apr-2015 08:43

jpoc:
heylinb4nz: Only in the USA....I wonder how long the sheeple will tolerate the crap that big corporations inflict to protect their obscene profits. I know for a fact that every car I have flashed and replaced the ECU on has performed better and used less fuel.

Good luck on trying to enforce it.

I would also expect that each of those reflashed cards has produced substantially higher levels of pollution. Stock ECU mappings are optimised for emission controls not performance or economy and so it is easy for tuners and owners who lack scruples to re-map for a combination of performance and economy at the expense of pollution.

As long as the car passes the required emissions test then what's the problem?

If the only test required is "shows no visible emissions" then that is not the problem of the guy that tuned it.

Just because car makers design their cars to pass Californian emissions tests doesn't mean we can't fix them for use in the real world

Matthew

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#1288952 22-Apr-2015 09:38

In modern cars ODO is computer controlled. Numerous "dealers" in New York, SF, LA and elsehwere in USA are offering "chiptuning" service "to fix your ODO" of course in the scenario when "your dashboard failed and you have purchased second hand one from the wreck yard and you want to change that one to what your real mileage was"

So proposed legislation most probably is aimed against those "fixmen".

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#1288994 22-Apr-2015 10:02

RUKI: In modern cars ODO is computer controlled. Numerous "dealers" in New York, SF, LA and elsehwere in USA are offering "chiptuning" service "to fix your ODO" of course in the scenario when "your dashboard failed and you have purchased second hand one from the wreck yard and you want to change that one to what your real mileage was"
So proposed legislation most probably is aimed against those "fixmen".

It is probably easier to do on American cars than European ones. The American automobile industry isn't exactly known for its technological innovation.

To be fair much of that is because their government creates rules based on specific design rather than outcomes. For example, ever wondered why all car headlights are the same size (internally) its because the US government specified all headlights had to be that size, instead of specifying minimum light output.

Matthew

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#1289029 22-Apr-2015 10:43

mdooher:
jpoc:
heylinb4nz: Only in the USA....I wonder how long the sheeple will tolerate the crap that big corporations inflict to protect their obscene profits. I know for a fact that every car I have flashed and replaced the ECU on has performed better and used less fuel.

Good luck on trying to enforce it.

I would also expect that each of those reflashed cards has produced substantially higher levels of pollution. Stock ECU mappings are optimised for emission controls not performance or economy and so it is easy for tuners and owners who lack scruples to re-map for a combination of performance and economy at the expense of pollution.

As long as the car passes the required emissions test then what's the problem?

If the only test required is "shows no visible emissions" then that is not the problem of the guy that tuned it.

Just because car makers design their cars to pass Californian emissions tests doesn't mean we can't fix them for use in the real world

Many European countries have much stricter emissions tests than 'shows no visible emissions". A full check of exhaust gas mix has been part of the UK MOT test (WOF) for over 15 years now. I'd say NZ is in the minority in not requiring this, rather than the real world! Judging from the number of smokey clunkers running on coal I see in NZ, it's overdue, as well.

Geektastic

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#1289031 22-Apr-2015 10:45

mdooher:
RUKI: In modern cars ODO is computer controlled. Numerous "dealers" in New York, SF, LA and elsehwere in USA are offering "chiptuning" service "to fix your ODO" of course in the scenario when "your dashboard failed and you have purchased second hand one from the wreck yard and you want to change that one to what your real mileage was"
So proposed legislation most probably is aimed against those "fixmen".

It is probably easier to do on American cars than European ones. The American automobile industry isn't exactly known for its technological innovation.

To be fair much of that is because their government creates rules based on specific design rather than outcomes. For example, ever wondered why all car headlights are the same size (internally) its because the US government specified all headlights had to be that size, instead of specifying minimum light output.

Many Euro cars will download their actual mileage from the ECU when plugged in for service and have it stored in the car's online records, so it would be possible for someone to compare service records pre-fix and post-fix..!

mdooher

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#1289041 22-Apr-2015 10:53

Geektastic:
mdooher:
jpoc:
heylinb4nz: Only in the USA....I wonder how long the sheeple will tolerate the crap that big corporations inflict to protect their obscene profits. I know for a fact that every car I have flashed and replaced the ECU on has performed better and used less fuel.

Good luck on trying to enforce it.

I would also expect that each of those reflashed cards has produced substantially higher levels of pollution. Stock ECU mappings are optimised for emission controls not performance or economy and so it is easy for tuners and owners who lack scruples to re-map for a combination of performance and economy at the expense of pollution.

As long as the car passes the required emissions test then what's the problem?

If the only test required is "shows no visible emissions" then that is not the problem of the guy that tuned it.

Just because car makers design their cars to pass Californian emissions tests doesn't mean we can't fix them for use in the real world

Many European countries have much stricter emissions tests than 'shows no visible emissions". A full check of exhaust gas mix has been part of the UK MOT test (WOF) for over 15 years now. I'd say NZ is in the minority in not requiring this, rather than the real world! Judging from the number of smokey clunkers running on coal I see in NZ, it's overdue, as well.

I don't have a problem with that, actually I agree whole heartedly. What I am saying is you cant blame the tuners if the law allows it.

One thing though, the government needs to deal with the underpowered smoke belching trucks first (and of course stinking Subaru's driven by people with "save the planet" stickers )

Matthew

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#1289046 22-Apr-2015 10:58

Geektastic:
mdooher:
RUKI: In modern cars ODO is computer controlled. Numerous "dealers" in New York, SF, LA and elsehwere in USA are offering "chiptuning" service "to fix your ODO" of course in the scenario when "your dashboard failed and you have purchased second hand one from the wreck yard and you want to change that one to what your real mileage was"
So proposed legislation most probably is aimed against those "fixmen".

It is probably easier to do on American cars than European ones. The American automobile industry isn't exactly known for its technological innovation.

To be fair much of that is because their government creates rules based on specific design rather than outcomes. For example, ever wondered why all car headlights are the same size (internally) its because the US government specified all headlights had to be that size, instead of specifying minimum light output.

Many Euro cars will download their actual mileage from the ECU when plugged in for service and have it stored in the car's online records, so it would be possible for someone to compare service records pre-fix and post-fix..!

Mine stores the data in 3 separate places, if they don't match it overwrites the all of them with the biggest number... no second had ECUs and instrument clusters for me

Of course all NZ cars are checked at each WOF. you just need to look it up on CARJAM to see if it has been wound back

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geekiegeek

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#1289048 22-Apr-2015 10:59

KiwiNZ:
joker97: would buying Japanese and Korean (and god forbid Chinese) -made cars be exempt?

either way the TPPA is crazy.

We will all be buying Chinese cars soon. Remember what was said about the Japanese cars in the 60's and early 70's and the Korean cars in the 80's and 90's

I'll stick to the German ones thanks :-)

SepticSceptic

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#1289243 22-Apr-2015 12:52

mrtoken:
Dingbatt: As long as the first thing they crack down on is noisy after market exhausts it won't be all bad. (Bah humbug)

I have difficulty with not being allowed to modify something I own. That being said, what goes along with that right is also the responsibility. If you carry out mods, be it on your car, your house or your computer you must be willing to accept loss of warranty or insurance cover, and in extreme cases when life is endangered or lost, face prosecution.

But you don't "own" it, you have a license to "use" it for your own personal usage :P
*I expect this will be the next line companies start to use.

They already are, and not just with cars - John Deere is forcing this construct on tractor owners.

"It’s official: John Deere and General Motors want to eviscerate the notion of ownership. Sure, we pay for their vehicles. But we don’t own them. Not according to their corporate lawyers, anyway. "

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

And farmers are cant get their new fangled tractors fixed, as the local service techs are not permitted to have access to service manuals, diagnostics, etc

http://www.wired.com/2013/03/you-dont-own-your-cellphones-or-your-cars/

oxnsox

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#1289816 22-Apr-2015 22:24

Like much of the TPPA I suspect that this move is more about IP copywrite than anything else.

We'll soon be seeing Autonomous vehicles in regular use on roads and this is, I believe, pre-emptry to their introduction. How far away is that day do you think? I heard today that there are currently about 50,000 Tesla vehicles on the road in the States that are capable of being upgraded remotely to Autonomous operation. It's expected this upgrade could be pushed out later this year.

jpoc

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#1289894 23-Apr-2015 07:10

oxnsox: Like much of the TPPA I suspect that this move is more about IP copywrite than anything else.

We'll soon be seeing Autonomous vehicles in regular use on roads and this is, I believe, pre-emptry to their introduction. How far away is that day do you think? I heard today that there are currently about 50,000 Tesla vehicles on the road in the States that are capable of being upgraded remotely to Autonomous operation. It's expected this upgrade could be pushed out later this year.

Wow, you mean that they have found a way to download cameras and and all of the servo gear required to steer and operate the brakes? Plus all of the processing power to run the self driving software?

I really doubt that.

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