MBIE Petrol Study

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#1915286 8-Dec-2017 13:22

CJC:

Not sure if they're always done it, but recently noted the local Paknsave petrol was 5c more expensive than a petrol station around the corner. Had never really looked at their prices before. Then it occured to me that the requirement of spending $70 in store for a 6c discount voucher actually only gets you a whole 1c off a litre at the pumps. What a deal.

Pak 'n Save petrol in Wellington is quite often cheaper than Z/BP/Mobil/Caltex and you get 6c off with no minimum spend.

I now go there most of the time since I refuse to give a cent to Z unless it's absolutely necessary. IMHO they're now more evil than Google and Uber combined..

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#1915289 8-Dec-2017 13:25

tehgerbil:

CJC:

Not sure if they're always done it, but recently noted the local Paknsave petrol was 5c more expensive than a petrol station around the corner. Had never really looked at their prices before. Then it occured to me that the requirement of spending $70 in store for a 6c discount voucher actually only gets you a whole 1c off a litre at the pumps. What a deal.

That is in essence what Consumer (I think?) argued - fuel vouchers are a poor/stupid tax. If you don't buy a lot of groceries you never get enough points on the card to get the subsidy, so you pay more, while those who do buy lots of groceries get the discount.

But the seller (due to the current market) can set their own price, so they deliberately factor in the loss via fuel vouchers in order to still come out on top.

Supermarket vouchers in Australia were limited to 4c by the ACCC a number of years ago because discounts hit upwards of 40c which skewed the petrol market.

All voucher schemes should be limited to a maximum of 4c here also. It will be interesting to see the reaction from the AA is this was to happen - because they're in dential right now that Smartfuel *is* a huge contributor to the retail problems we've got.

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#1915331 8-Dec-2017 14:40

tdgeek:
Geektastic:
tdgeek:

Geektastic: Don’t panic:

”And Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods is sending a stern message to fuel companies, warning the Government may intervene if it believes the industry is ripping off motorists at the fuel pump.”

Oh yes. Very stern indeed. Positively steely-eyed.

Pffft.

A stern message would be announcing the Commerce Commission (which is a toothless mangy old dog but the best we have) investigation without further ado.

You should have read the article, which included adding teeth to ComCom. National raised the same concerns. Or should she have said, nah, its all good?? This issue has transgressed both Govts, both raised concerns. ComCom has to be given that power, that apparently is the plan, but will be end 2018

Sure. However I am left wondering why it never had those powers and what the point of it would be if it had no power to force people to comply etc.

Maybe there was never a need to have wholesale investigative capability. National could have done it but I doubt it was ever a big deal then. It seems to be now, and I assume, without checking, that the relationship now between wholesale, exchange rates and retail is skewed. Its always been a niggle, maybe now the straw broke the camels back. Fuel affects everything, from your petrol costs to toilet paper costs

Maybe. I use find it odd that anyone would set up a body like that without adequate power from day one.

Totally agree with you re the cost affecting everything. I’d like to see the price here pegged to the price in the USA.

wellygary

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#1915342 8-Dec-2017 14:55

sbiddle:

All voucher schemes should be limited to a maximum of 4c here also. It will be interesting to see the reaction from the AA is this was to happen - because they're in dential right now that Smartfuel *is* a huge contributor to the retail problems we've got.

The whole buy this and get X cents a litre off is what is allowing petrol companies to lie with a straight face over their margins, while still refusing to divulge what they are giving away on the backend in discounting.

Oblivian

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#1915352 8-Dec-2017 15:22

Guess what and who just lowered the pump 2c...

Wait for another in a few days

allan

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#1915366 8-Dec-2017 16:14

sbiddle: Supermarket vouchers in Australia were limited to 4c by the ACCC a number of years ago because discounts hit upwards of 40c which skewed the petrol market.

All voucher schemes should be limited to a maximum of 4c here also. It will be interesting to see the reaction from the AA is this was to happen - because they're in dential right now that Smartfuel *is* a huge contributor to the retail problems we've got.

Yes well, they're a financially interested party, so their public stance is definitely going to be denial.

darthmeow

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#1915380 8-Dec-2017 16:48

Oblivian: Guess what and who just lowered the pump 2c...

Wait for another in a few days

I'm going to say not-BP and here's hoping it's a nationwide drop not just a local price adjustment so the premium cost goes down a bit. Gotta love that high compression engine life.

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#1915386 8-Dec-2017 16:58

wellygary:

sbiddle:

All voucher schemes should be limited to a maximum of 4c here also. It will be interesting to see the reaction from the AA is this was to happen - because they're in dential right now that Smartfuel *is* a huge contributor to the retail problems we've got.

The whole buy this and get X cents a litre off is what is allowing petrol companies to lie with a straight face over their margins, while still refusing to divulge what they are giving away on the backend in discounting.

Petrol company margins are not excessive. If you look at companies like Z who are traded you see see their results. I don't believe they make an excessive ROI.

The problem is that for many years margins on the "national" price sat at around 16-20c. That figure which is reported by MBIE is now well over 30c. Many who don't understand the industry (including Mark Stockdale from the AA) use this as proof that margins are now excessive.

The problem is this is fake data. Heavy discounting in some regions is seeing petrol sold for 30c less than the "national" price meaning that it's being sold at a loss. This means those paying 214.9 for it are in effect subsidising this and delivering a an average margin that still sits around the 20c mark. When Z publlcally say that those paying the national price aren't subsidising the cheaper prices it's quite honestly a lie even bigger than Trump could tell.

Retail loading has seen an added 6c become the new norm to compensate for instant discounts, and the fact petrol sells at an independant in Lawrence for 6c a litre cheaper than the national price when they're 30km from the closest other petrol station really shows the effect of this.

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#1915438 8-Dec-2017 20:48

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

tdgeek

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#1915444 8-Dec-2017 21:16

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

shk292

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#1915475 8-Dec-2017 22:12

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

I'm sure the Greens would love to see a price drop.

Although if you believe Russell, it'll be $10 per litre soon anyway:

Friday, 11 Jul 2008 | Press Release

Contact: Russel Norman MP

Tags: Energy, Economics, Peak Oil, Transport

Predictions from prestigious Australian research institute CSIRO that petrol could cost up to AUS$8 - about NZ$10 - per litre within a decade means we need to rapidly change course to avoid serious economic disarray, Green Party Co-Leader Russel Norman says

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#1915478 8-Dec-2017 22:21

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

Petrol is has a significant amount of tax in the price you pay. Do you see the government reducing the amount of tax they grab from petrol?

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#1915479 8-Dec-2017 22:23

shk292:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

I'm sure the Greens would love to see a price drop.

Although if you believe Russell, it'll be $10 per litre soon anyway:

Friday, 11 Jul 2008 | Press Release

Contact: Russel Norman MP Tags: Energy, Economics, Peak Oil, Transport

Predictions from prestigious Australian research institute CSIRO that petrol could cost up to AUS$8 - about NZ$10 - per litre within a decade means we need to rapidly change course to avoid serious economic disarray, Green Party Co-Leader Russel Norman says

Just goes to show you shouldn't believe anything a politician says.

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tdgeek

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#1915595 9-Dec-2017 10:14

Technofreak:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

Petrol is has a significant amount of tax in the price you pay. Do you see the government reducing the amount of tax they grab from petrol?

Why would they? The issue is the industry messing with margins and schemes to garner extra unfair revenue.

Geektastic

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#1915632 9-Dec-2017 12:18

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

In what way is that bizarre? About $1 of each litre is just tax. Reduce the tax and you reduce the cost of fuel.

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