Waterview Tunnel onto SH16 Eastbound ANZAC Day

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#2006094 1-May-2018 15:53

Jase2985:

solid white lines dont mean you cant change lanes, it just means you need to be more cautious when you do. its not illegal to do it, so you cant be fined for it unless its unsafe.

all they want it people to stay in their lanes so there is less of a chance of an accident caused by someone changing lanes.

Pretty sure drivers are generally expected to comply with road signage though, and the tunnel has big "No Lane Changing" signs at both ends as in the pic above.

Regards FireEngine

Jase2985

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#2006118 1-May-2018 16:17

but it still doesnt mean you cant do it.

SepticSceptic

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#2006123 1-May-2018 16:21

FireEngine:

Jase2985:

solid white lines dont mean you cant change lanes, it just means you need to be more cautious when you do. its not illegal to do it, so you cant be fined for it unless its unsafe.

all they want it people to stay in their lanes so there is less of a chance of an accident caused by someone changing lanes.

Pretty sure drivers are generally expected to comply with road signage though, and the tunnel has big "No Lane Changing" signs at both ends as in the pic above.

Pretty sure it's not enforceable. I'm quite OK with changing lanes in the tunnels, within reason.

Ditto with Vic Park tunnel.

AFAIR, generally road signs that have a red border are enforceable, others are advisory only.

Jase2985

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#2006127 1-May-2018 16:27

i will only change lanes if i absolutely have to, which i have done twice (i drive the tunnel every day) and that was because someone thought they should be driving 50 through it, and the other was because a tunnel service vechicle was flashing its lights and slowing down for something.

FireEngine

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#2006128 1-May-2018 16:29

Jase2985:

but it still doesnt mean you cant do it.

Eh?

TBH directly contravening such a sign I'd expect to lead to an "Unsafe Passing" charge (which carries 35 demerits), or possibly (given they were also well over the speed of surrounding traffic), Careless or Inconsiderate use of a motor vehicle (which also carries 35 demerits). There are no specific "Safe to pass" or "Unsafe to pass" signs or road markings, nor are there any that relate to Careless or Inconsiderate usage, it will depend on evidence of behaviour and circumstances.

Regards FireEngine

FireEngine

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#2006129 1-May-2018 16:31

Jase2985:

i will only change lanes if i absolutely have to, which i have done twice (i drive the tunnel every day) and that was because someone thought they should be driving 50 through it, and the other was because a tunnel service vechicle was flashing its lights and slowing down for something.

Yep amazing the number of people that set their speed at 80 on the downhill entry, don't notice it drops to 75 on the flat and wonder why the traffic is bunching up behind them at 65 on the rising exit

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Jase2985

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#2006161 1-May-2018 17:50

FireEngine:

Jase2985:

but it still doesnt mean you cant do it.

Eh?

TBH directly contravening such a sign I'd expect to lead to an "Unsafe Passing" charge (which carries 35 demerits), or possibly (given they were also well over the speed of surrounding traffic), Careless or Inconsiderate use of a motor vehicle (which also carries 35 demerits). There are no specific "Safe to pass" or "Unsafe to pass" signs or road markings, nor are there any that relate to Careless or Inconsiderate usage, it will depend on evidence of behaviour and circumstances.

nope none of those, if you safely undertake a lane change, its clear you indicate and give way (ie the lane is clear) there is nothing they can do.

the solid white line just means you need to take more care, it doesnt say you can not change lanes, other wise it would be a yellow line.

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#2006179 1-May-2018 18:36

Jase2985:

FireEngine:

Jase2985:

but it still doesnt mean you cant do it.

Eh?

TBH directly contravening such a sign I'd expect to lead to an "Unsafe Passing" charge (which carries 35 demerits), or possibly (given they were also well over the speed of surrounding traffic), Careless or Inconsiderate use of a motor vehicle (which also carries 35 demerits). There are no specific "Safe to pass" or "Unsafe to pass" signs or road markings, nor are there any that relate to Careless or Inconsiderate usage, it will depend on evidence of behaviour and circumstances.

nope none of those, if you safely undertake a lane change, its clear you indicate and give way (ie the lane is clear) there is nothing they can do.

the solid white line just means you need to take more care, it doesnt say you can not change lanes, other wise it would be a yellow line.

AT/NZTA trying to Nanny state us. I ignore those. its a solid white line, Not a double yellow or single yellow.
Nothing noted about such rules existing on the NZTA's own website.
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/using-lanes-correctly/

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/passing/

FireEngine

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#2006227 1-May-2018 19:59

Jase2985:

nope none of those, if you safely undertake a lane change, its clear you indicate and give way (ie the lane is clear) there is nothing they can do.

the solid white line just means you need to take more care, it doesnt say you can not change lanes, other wise it would be a yellow line.

Successful doesn't equal safe. And your view on the sign that <Does> say "no lane changing"?

Either way we'll see if the cops take it and the motorway brake-check at the end of the video any further.

Regards FireEngine

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#2006250 1-May-2018 20:32

FireEngine:Pretty sure drivers are generally expected to comply with road signage though, and the tunnel has big "No Lane Changing" signs at both ends as in the pic above.

Looks like you do have to comply with the no lane change signs.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/whole.html#DLM303061

3.1 General requirements about places controlled by traffic control devices

(1)

Subject to subclauses (2) and (3), if traffic at any place is controlled by a traffic control device, a person (including a pedestrian) using the road at that place must comply with the instructions given by that traffic control device that apply to them.

(2)

If traffic signs have been installed at a place controlled by traffic signals, then, in so far as the instructions given by the traffic signals are inconsistent with those given by the traffic signs, a person (including a pedestrian) using the road at that place must comply with the instructions given by the traffic signs that apply to them and not those given by the traffic signals.

(3)

If at any time the traffic at any place at which a traffic control device is installed is controlled by an enforcement officer, the officer’s directions override any instruction that may be given by the traffic control device.

kryptonjohn

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#2006257 1-May-2018 20:42

Jase2985:

but it still doesnt mean you cant do it.

Yeah it's a but vague. Road Code says compulsory signs are usually red or blue. I'm not sure a white sign saying something makes it a legal requirement?

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-signs/main-types/

It does say "Important

Road authorities (for example, local councils) may have special rules for road users in specific areas. These restrictions should be indicated by signs or markings."

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#2006269 1-May-2018 21:00

Ya'll realise LTNZ are quoted in the link I posted right..

Hence I didn't say illegal. Nor law, but can be frowned upon by mr plod. I shall quote instead.

A: Andy Knackstedt, of Land Transport New Zealand, says that a lane is defined as "a longitudinal strip of roadway ... separated from other parts of the roadway by a longitudinal line or lines or paint or raised studs ... " So solid or broken white lines define lanes, and in law there is no difference. The police agree. In practice, a solid white line is used to give warning of pedestrian crossings, intersections, on curves, at the edge of a road, or wherever emphasis is needed to remind you to stay in your lane. Your aggressor was a bad and dangerous driver, and should have stayed in his or her own lane.

Jase2985

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#2006274 1-May-2018 21:05

@runningman then the signs and road marking contradict each other?

@FireEngine yes it does, if the tunnel was empty and i changed lanes how it is unsafe? its not. you can cross solid white line lane markings

if you have a solid white line outside your house which marks out the lane, can you cross it to get into your drive way? yes you can as long as its safe to do so. no different to the solid lines in the tunnel.

Jase2985

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#2006275 1-May-2018 21:10

kryptonjohn:

Jase2985:

but it still doesnt mean you cant do it.

Yeah it's a but vague. Road Code says compulsory signs are usually red or blue. I'm not sure a white sign saying something makes it a legal requirement?

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-signs/main-types/

It does say "Important

Road authorities (for example, local councils) may have special rules for road users in specific areas. These restrictions should be indicated by signs or markings."

its a motorway so local rules dont apply its a national standard

and its black on white, its an information sign, "Information signs give you useful information, for example, the distance to the next town. They are all rectangular, but come in a range of different colours and sizes."

Linuxluver

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#2006314 1-May-2018 23:02

Gurezaemon:

Linux:

Please share the footage

Linux

Curious - does dashcam footage have any legal weight to getting muppets like these guys off the road? Given the strict rules that I believe to be in place for speed cameras (only one car in shot, etc.), I would have thought there would be some legal difficulties there.

Speed cameras are a single photo.

This is video, backed by the "testimony" of at least one eye-witness that supports what the video is showing.

There would be no doubt about this as evidence.

A still photo can't show behaviour over time....or make it clear which vehicle is speeding.....but video absolutely can. Look at that fast car gooooo.

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