Zero Electric Scooters

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#2210610 4-Apr-2019 10:47

LiveM:
I'd be very interested to see which Zero model will pull me (also > 100kg) up the kind of hills we have around our place. I wonder if I can test ride one up College Hill or Victoria St as they are right by the shop.

Why not give pop in or give them a call? At least you have the advantage of being in the same city! I'd like to have taken one for a test ride, but am not too worried I couldn't as I live in a flat city, and I know for sure the 10 will be better up slopes then my Xiaomi.

Interestingly the 9 and 10 have the same weight recommendations (120kg, I think), with the 8 lower and the 10X higher, but hills may well may a decent difference so trying one in the flesh is surely your best bet.

Dinga96

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#2210895 4-Apr-2019 19:54

robfish:

After a week delay for Toll to pick up my new Zero 10 it arrived in Christchurch this morning.

Wow!

It is so smooth and powerful. Take off from still is fantastic in all three modes. Mode 1 gets up to 24 kph with my bulk and some tools so I doubt I will need to use Level 3 around the CBD.

(I did toy with level 3 and easily got to 46 kph before having to slow down for lights)

This is a serious vehicle. I was happy to let friends try my Xiaomi M365 but not this beast.

I ordered the Zero 10 last month and it arrived a few days later.I have to agree it is a well made little machine.If it hadn't been for you Rob I would never have known about these scooters .So thanks very much.One thing I noticed is the front suspension does tend to not handle bumps at speed.It will bottom out at the end of its travel with and audible clunk.The rear suspension is very good though.It handles hills pretty well although steep hills not so well.My solution to one very steep hill on the way to work was to hop off and let the scooter pull you up the hill by using the throttle lever,works quiet well.

jonathan18

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#2210898 4-Apr-2019 20:09

Dinga96:

I ordered the Zero 10 last month and it arrived a few days later.I have to agree it is a well made little machine.If it hadn't been for you Rob I would never have known about these scooters .So thanks very much.One thing I noticed is the front suspension does tend to not handle bumps at speed.It will bottom out at the end of its travel with and audible clunk.The rear suspension is very good though.It handles hills pretty well although steep hills not so well.My solution to one very steep hill on the way to work was to hop off and let the scooter pull you up the hill by using the throttle lever,works quiet well.

I wonder if Rob's getting commission on each scooter purchased as a result of this thread?! No wonder they made him their agent...

Dinga96: whereabouts do you live? Just wondering what your idea of a 'steep' vs a 'non-steep' hill is, to get a sense as to what the 10 copes with in the real world. I'm not likely to use it often on steep hills where I live, but would think about taking it to Wgtn say for an easy way to get around.

The full air suspension front and rear is definitely a key advantage of the 10X over the 10 - looking at the videos of this on Youtube indicates it handles bumps amazingly well. I'm not planning on trashing my 10, but certainly look forward to less 'feedback' from the road.

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#2210899 4-Apr-2019 20:09

Yes the clunking sound is a bit disconcerting.
Don't get tempted to tighten the suspension though. The cable feeding the front strip light can be easily cut if not unsoldered and removed before separating the stem from the shaft.

The best way to overcome it is to put your weight over the rear when going over bumps and crossings.

You also need to concentrate with that much power too (lean forward when taking off and lean back when braking). I have found that I rarely have the need to switch to level 3.

Rob

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#2210903 4-Apr-2019 20:15

I wonder if Rob's getting commission on each scooter purchased as a result of this thread?! No wonder they made him their agent

As the Christchurch agents, my son and I will be getting commission on local sales but we will also have to cover the initial servicing too.

There is no harm in mentioning that you are purchasing based on my recommendations though.

Rob

Dinga96

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#2211303 5-Apr-2019 12:36

jonathan18:

Dinga96:

I ordered the Zero 10 last month and it arrived a few days later.I have to agree it is a well made little machine.If it hadn't been for you Rob I would never have known about these scooters .So thanks very much.One thing I noticed is the front suspension does tend to not handle bumps at speed.It will bottom out at the end of its travel with and audible clunk.The rear suspension is very good though.It handles hills pretty well although steep hills not so well.My solution to one very steep hill on the way to work was to hop off and let the scooter pull you up the hill by using the throttle lever,works quiet well.

I wonder if Rob's getting commission on each scooter purchased as a result of this thread?! No wonder they made him their agent...

Dinga96: whereabouts do you live? Just wondering what your idea of a 'steep' vs a 'non-steep' hill is, to get a sense as to what the 10 copes with in the real world. I'm not likely to use it often on steep hills where I live, but would think about taking it to Wgtn say for an easy way to get around.

The full air suspension front and rear is definitely a key advantage of the 10X over the 10 - looking at the videos of this on Youtube indicates it handles bumps amazingly well. I'm not planning on trashing my 10, but certainly look forward to less 'feedback' from the road.

At the end of fourth avenue in Tauranga is a coldesack that leads onto a walkway track.It requires a bit of effort to walk up .My guess would be about 30- 40 degrees.

The road is a better surface for riding on than footpaths but you are a bit safer on the footpath.

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jonathan18

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#2211314 5-Apr-2019 13:06

Dinga96:

At the end of fourth avenue in Tauranga is a coldesack that leads onto a walkway track.It requires a bit of effort to walk up .My guess would be about 30- 40 degrees.

The road is a better surface for riding on than footpaths but you are a bit safer on the footpath.

That's pretty steep, so I'm not surprised it struggles!

TBH, I see it differently re relative safety of roads vs footpath - for the first few days of riding I carefully stuck to the footpaths, but found I felt so vulnerable to the risk of cars exiting and entering driveways without looking carefully. Slowly more and more of my moved to the road, to the point I tend to only use the footpath for very short spurts where it'll be quicker than the road. (Plus the condition of footpaths is so bad, as well as that I would slow down significantly when passing pedestrians, meant my speed was so slow it took ages to get anywhere!)

As covered in the Mi thread, my main concern in regards to riding on the road has been cars failing to give way at roundabouts - I live in a Lime-free location so I think drivers simply aren't expecting and therefore aren't 'seeing' someone on a scooter on the road; it just doesn't compute for them. And this is wearing a yellow hi-vis jacket! This is the primary reason I've upgraded from a Mi to a Zero - I need a higher top speed to get out of vulnerable situations.

elpenguino

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#2211319 5-Apr-2019 13:33

jonathan18:

Dinga96:

At the end of fourth avenue in Tauranga is a coldesack that leads onto a walkway track.It requires a bit of effort to walk up .My guess would be about 30- 40 degrees.

The road is a better surface for riding on than footpaths but you are a bit safer on the footpath.

That's pretty steep, so I'm not surprised it struggles!

TBH, I see it differently re relative safety of roads vs footpath - for the first few days of riding I carefully stuck to the footpaths, but found I felt so vulnerable to the risk of cars exiting and entering driveways without looking carefully. Slowly more and more of my moved to the road, to the point I tend to only use the footpath for very short spurts where it'll be quicker than the road. (Plus the condition of footpaths is so bad, as well as that I would slow down significantly when passing pedestrians, meant my speed was so slow it took ages to get anywhere!)

As covered in the Mi thread, my main concern in regards to riding on the road has been cars failing to give way at roundabouts - I live in a Lime-free location so I think drivers simply aren't expecting and therefore aren't 'seeing' someone on a scooter on the road; it just doesn't compute for them. And this is wearing a yellow hi-vis jacket! This is the primary reason I've upgraded from a Mi to a Zero - I need a higher top speed to get out of vulnerable situations.

That's probably exacerbated by scooter riders being over on the left close to the gutter whereas your average driver is expecting traffic in the centre of the lane.

Re scooting on the road: you could change the word scooter to motorbike and get agreement from bikers everywhere.

A lot of drivers are really bad at paying attention to non-car road-users and giving space as they should to be courteous and giving way to be legal.

I never bothered with hi-viz clothing while motorbiking but relied on headlights and wits.

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#2211346 5-Apr-2019 13:51

I have found that I feel safer (on the road) when I am doing the same speed as the cars, rather than being overtaken by them. This is easily done on my Zero 10 around town.

Rob

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#2211364 5-Apr-2019 14:37

robfish:

I have found that I feel safer (on the road) when I am doing the same speed as the cars, rather than being overtaken by them. This is easily done on my Zero 10 around town.

This is the one area that my M365 lets me down...32-35km/h does not keep me up with the traffic, so I am another nuisance like a slow bike when I am on the road, except where there is a 30km/h speed limit (Queen St in AKL, for example).

If I were doing 50-55 I would feel like I am at least as capable of defensive driving as a cyclist, but as a scooter rider I feel far more vulnerable, because I have so much less ability to accelerate or manoeuvre.

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#2211376 5-Apr-2019 15:07

Herewith an unashamed plug - Zero is the answer.

Rob

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jonathan18

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#2211397 5-Apr-2019 15:52

Handsomedan:

robfish:

I have found that I feel safer (on the road) when I am doing the same speed as the cars, rather than being overtaken by them. This is easily done on my Zero 10 around town.

This is the one area that my M365 lets me down...32-35km/h does not keep me up with the traffic, so I am another nuisance like a slow bike when I am on the road, except where there is a 30km/h speed limit (Queen St in AKL, for example).

If I were doing 50-55 I would feel like I am at least as capable of defensive driving as a cyclist, but as a scooter rider I feel far more vulnerable, because I have so much less ability to accelerate or manoeuvre.

I found the problem is also with the relatively slow acceleration of the M365, and this just gets worse as the battery gets below the half-way point! I often found myself quite embarrassed at the length of time it took me to cross an intersection, especially at roundabouts where other traffic would be waiting for me before they can go.

I haven't got my Zero 10 yet, but I have already been warned by my wife I'm not allowed to ride at 50kmh on a regular basis! My plans are to generally stick to the side of the road as if I was a cyclist, but look to make appropriate use of the 10's speed and acceleration at intersections, eg it should give me the confidence to place myself more centrally in the lane when going through a roundabout, rather than feeling like I must tuck myself to the outside.

Cheep

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#2212843 8-Apr-2019 14:08

elpenguino:

Scott3:

jonathan18:

How does that sit with this bit from the NZTA's 'Low powered vehicles' page, which states:

Please note: the maximum possible wattage stated of the electric motor is not necessarily the same as the maximum power output of the e-scooter.

Maximum power output is determined by multiplying the battery voltage by the controller’s maximum amperage output. For example, a 600W motor and a 12V battery with a controller that has a maximum output of 21amps creates a maximum power output of 252W – so 252W is the relevant figure, even though the motor has a potential output of 600W.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/vehicle-types/low-powered-vehicles/

My reading was the 800W is the 'maximum possible wattage stated of the electric motor', not the 'maximum power output of the e-scooter'. Hence my earlier question about what the latter figure would be of the 10X, as I'm sure that's more likely to exceed the maximum allowable (2x 800w rather than 1x800w)...

The scooter in question has a 52V nominal battery pack, and a 25A controller. Using the NZTA's equation, this works out to 1300W...

I am really surprised with what NZTA has published above. It does not appear to backed by law.

The relevant legal clause (as published in the gazette) is:

"The combined maximum power output of the electric auxiliary propulsion motors does not exceed 300 Watts."

Power output of motors of any type is measured as a mechanical output, and can be measured using a dynamometer. The calculation the the NZTA has proposed assumes that the motor is 100% efficient. The reality is that brushed electric motors have 75-80% peak efficiency, and brush-less motors have 85-90% efficiency. and lower efficiencies away from optimal RPM.

That's all true but the motor can't produce mechanical output power unless that amount of electricity (less losses) is supplied by the motor's controller.

But a pox on the person who used both amperage and wattage in the same paragraph - what an amateur (maybe that should be armature for this thread).

The scooter looks cool but it must be scary AF doing 40 km/h on one of these things.

So my theory is there is not enough information known about electric scooters in NZ to properly regulate them at the moment.

The max output can't be measured by the controller (of which the Zero 10X has 2 x 25A) but rather the power output of the batteries which isn't obvious by just looking at it (Zero do a 18A and 24A version) Also if riding on a half-charged battery, the output if going to be quite a bit less (along with peak efficiencies as others have mentioned) so it is a very grey area.

Interestingly Falcon have an export model (full power) and local version of their scooters which complies with Singapore regulations.

I have a 10X 18A which I use everyday for work and it's awesome. I've hit 60km/h on the flat and it still has some left to go but on average I tend to do 40km/h max so as not to draw too much attention.

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#2212868 8-Apr-2019 14:31

Cheep:

So my theory is there is not enough information known about electric scooters in NZ to properly regulate them at the moment.

The max output can't be measured by the controller (of which the Zero 10X has 2 x 25A) but rather the power output of the batteries which isn't obvious by just looking at it (Zero do a 18A and 24A version) Also if riding on a half-charged battery, the output if going to be quite a bit less (along with peak efficiencies as others have mentioned) so it is a very grey area.

Interestingly Falcon have an export model (full power) and local version of their scooters which complies with Singapore regulations.

I have a 10X 18A which I use everyday for work and it's awesome. I've hit 60km/h on the flat and it still has some left to go but on average I tend to do 40km/h max so as not to draw too much attention.

Is there not a risk, though, of the Govt responding to this situation by simply banning all scooters from the road, and placing some arbitrary (and difficult to police) speed limit for scooters being used on the footpath (or even ban their use there too)?

I have to admit that the risk central and/or local government may do something stupid in relation to e-scooters does worry me a bit, given I've forked out nearly $2k for one to use as my 'daily driver'. Let alone what that would do to e-scooters' role as part of solving our transport (and emissions) woes...

JaBZ

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#2213037 8-Apr-2019 16:44

I've been considering getting a scooter, as I now park my car 2kms from work, was a choice I made for exercise and cost of parking in Auckland CBD.

However there are times I have opted to Lime it for various reasons due to time. Limes do struggle to get up Franklin Rd (avg of 8% gradient) , I'm 95kg, however it depends on age of battery and charge level, only the newer ones have made it without stopping. I was eyeing up the M365, however considering the incline of Franklin Rd, I wasn't sure it would be good enough.

Now also looking at the Zero range, would the Zero 9 be more suitable?

My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..

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