Discussion paper and call for comments

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Discussion paper and call for comments - RUCs

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#2861247 3-Feb-2022 13:29

Dingbatt:

Isn't that extra equipment though? If the system already exists in (admittedly more expensive) vehicles, then incentivising dealers to activate it and get another revenue stream may help its adoption.

May need some sort of “Driving for families” government support when RUCs and a Climate Change tax are applied to motoring and the true cost is shared equally on a “User and Abuser Pays” basis.

The extra equipment is provided by a vendor and attaches to the windscreen in place of the RUC label. Automates off road claims as well. As far as I can tell (business manager) you just check and pay the monthly bill and eroad deal with everything except WOFs. I should be clear that eroad is only a commercial vehicle product. But I think if all vehicles were in RUC there would be an opportunity for similar product catering to private vehicles.

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#2861250 3-Feb-2022 13:44

Dingbatt:

If NZ makes it too onerous for manufacturers we may face the situation where they just go “Yeah, Nah”. Some will say good riddance, but in the end it is the least privileged that will suffer most.

The manufacturers aren't involved in the used import process in any meaningful way so I don't think they'll give a toss about any requirement regarding used imports. Source: Nissan disavowed all imported Leafs for years, still won't touch them in regards to replacement batteries even if you're waving money under their nose. But as I said in another thread you can make it less of a pain to have retrofitted or installed at import by giving some free km of RUC for anyone that does it. The least privileged are far less likely to be buying brand new cars, but if the manufacturers simply refusing to sell to New Zealand was ever going to be a real possibility - and I would respectfully submit that given they have waiting lists for basically everything right now the simple fact of the matter is that they can sell anything they can get on the ground here so they're not going to give that up for want of bolting on a small extra box - then again you could make it a dealer problem and locally install a third-party system on new cars as well as used.

Hell, you could even spin it as a Jobs For Kiwis thing and commission a local company to design the hardware and software for a national standard system.

Bottom line is that governments regulate stuff all the time. That's what governments do. No manufacturer left the NZ market because they were forced to install seatbelts.

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#2861251 3-Feb-2022 13:45

Who pays for all this tracking? I’m guessing the likes of eRoad is not free.

Or is the cost per vehicle so small not worth worrying about?

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#2861252 3-Feb-2022 13:53

rugrat:

Who pays for all this tracking? I’m guessing the likes of eRoad is not free.

Or is the cost per vehicle so small not worth worrying about?

That is also already a discussion item in the paper. They estimate that the current systems in use on heavy vehicles cost at minimum around $20/mth. I would think if the government went out with RFP for a national system it could be done more cheaply. I am sure the mobile carriers would happily take that on with a robustly future-proof solution based on LTE-M or NB-IoT.

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#2861255 3-Feb-2022 14:02

rugrat:

Who pays for all this tracking? I’m guessing the likes of eRoad is not free.

Or is the cost per vehicle so small not worth worrying about?

It's not free. But it's not material in the scheme of running a vehicle. Also the admin time saved and the reduced compliance risk is worth it. And you buy in minimum increments so it manages cashflow well. And you don't pay agent service fees (VTNZ, post etc).

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#2861258 3-Feb-2022 14:21

For heavy vehicles, the cost of using E-Road is often more than recouped in savings. One of the big advantages of E-Road is the GPS tracking so it knows when you're on a public road and when you're on private property. Some of our delivery vehicles can cover up to 5% of their total annual kilometres on private property (Driveways, maneuvering through shopping centre carparks and distribution centres. With E-Road yo only pay RUC for those kms covered on public roads.

That won't be much of an advantage for private vehicles unless you like doing laps of the Countdown carpark!

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#2861271 3-Feb-2022 14:43

SaltyNZ:

Dingbatt:

If NZ makes it too onerous for manufacturers we may face the situation where they just go “Yeah, Nah”. Some will say good riddance, but in the end it is the least privileged that will suffer most.

The manufacturers aren't involved in the used import process in any meaningful way so I don't think they'll give a toss about any requirement regarding used imports…….

Bottom line is that governments regulate stuff all the time. That's what governments do. No manufacturer left the NZ market because they were forced to install seatbelts.

You commented on New and Used imports. I responded with comments on both.

Seatbelts, car safety equipment, are not equivalent to equipment whose purpose is revenue gathering. (Straw man argument).
Our market is so insignificant on the world stage that if it gets too difficult we will become a rounding error. The government can legislate all it likes, the manufacturers will say “No, do it yourself” because they won’t be bothered including something in the assembly line process just for us.

Honestly, if the distance travelled vs distance purchased has to be reconciled at WoF time, or no WOF, that’s fine by me.

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#2861274 3-Feb-2022 14:47

Senecio:

For heavy vehicles, the cost of using E-Road is often more than recouped in savings. One of the big advantages of E-Road is the GPS tracking so it knows when you're on a public road and when you're on private property. Some of our delivery vehicles can cover up to 5% of their total annual kilometres on private property (Driveways, maneuvering through shopping centre carparks and distribution centres. With E-Road yo only pay RUC for those kms covered on public roads.

That won't be much of an advantage for private vehicles unless you like doing laps of the Countdown carpark!

The costs are recouped IMO if you consider the staff time saved. Let alone fines averted.

The advantage of an analogous system for private vehicles would be the inconvenience avoided. A bit like having your prepay phone on auto top-up. My vehicle is 8,000 km overs its RUC right now. That's because I can't be bothered filling out the form.

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#2861288 3-Feb-2022 15:34

pdh:

> You cannot pay for your vehicle licence renewal unless it has a current WOF.

This may be true in theory - or for some classes of vehicle - but I re-registered my trailer recently and it certainly didn't have a current WOF.

Yes sorry I didn't want to clog my post by pointing out exceptions, but there are a few.

Trailers, caravans and exempt class A/B vehicles (and others) can all be relicenced with an expired (or no) WOF. But for the vast majority of passenger car/ute drivers, they must have a valid WOF first.

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#2861363 3-Feb-2022 17:02

Dingbatt:

Honestly, if the distance travelled vs distance purchased has to be reconciled at WoF time, or no WOF, that’s fine by me.

I’m for this. But guess they don’t want to have to wait up to a year for the money, and looking at electronic methods, even on non work vehicles.
The cost of electronic methods may make more sense for work vehicles.

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#2861366 3-Feb-2022 17:04

Dingbatt:

Honestly, if the distance travelled vs distance purchased has to be reconciled at WoF time, or no WOF, that’s fine by me.

Hmm, so for me, if RUCS was charged on petrol at $76 per 1000kms... My first WOF I'd owe $9120. I'd rather pay as I go thanks!

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#2861367 3-Feb-2022 17:05

MikeAqua:

The costs are recouped IMO if you consider the staff time saved. Let alone fines averted.

The advantage of an analogous system for private vehicles would be the inconvenience avoided. A bit like having your prepay phone on auto top-up. My vehicle is 8,000 km overs its RUC right now. That's because I can't be bothered filling out the form.

Seriously? It takes less than 2 minutes on line they mail out the card to display on you windscreen.

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#2861372 3-Feb-2022 17:25

Senecio:
Seriously? It takes less than 2 minutes on line they mail out the card to display on you windscreen.

Even better, when you do it online they email you a temporary RUC label to print and out in your window until the official one arrives!

As to why they don’t let us print them out and not send us one baffles me.

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#2861377 3-Feb-2022 17:31

MikeAqua:

My vehicle is 8,000 km overs its RUC right now. That's because I can't be bothered filling out the form.

$200 fine, plus 10% penalty on the un-purchased kilometers, and another 10% if you don't pay up within 60 days.

I think I'd rather pay before I get pulled over in a random WOF-and-rego stop

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#2861383 3-Feb-2022 17:42

mudguard:

Dingbatt:

Honestly, if the distance travelled vs distance purchased has to be reconciled at WoF time, or no WOF, that’s fine by me.

Hmm, so for me, if RUCS was charged on petrol at $76 per 1000kms... My first WOF I'd owe $9120. I'd rather pay as I go thanks!

I didn’t say you only pay at WoF time. My point being if the kms you have purchased (normally on an ongoing basis, as you say, pay as you go) are less than what you have driven, the difference needs to be settled before the warrant is issued. If you rock up owing $9000+ in RUCs for the distance travelled, that’s on you. But then I’m the sort of person that checks lights, tires, horn and washer/wipers before I take the car to the testing station. What happens with diesel cars at the moment? How are they checked?

An automated system is ideal. A manual backup is second best. But when you see the number of vehicles without current registration or WoF then what hope is there to get any money out of them for RUCs as well? From that perspective the Fuel Excise at least captures everybody. My car uses 5.2l/100km so if I get charged more than $42/1000km (@ $0.80/litre fuel excise) I'll be really p'd off.

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