Outlander v Outlander PHEV v Tiguan

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#3204627 8-Mar-2024 19:28

Lizard1977:

That's a useful yardstick - thanks @alasta

So let's assume - using that VW service cost calculator - that over six years of ownership each of the scheduled services is the same or similar cost. That would be approximately $6500. Potentially less if I had it serviced by a reputable third-party that specialises in euro cars; potentially more if overall costs go up with inflation, etc.

That comes to around $1100/yr in standard service costs, on average. Let's round it up to $1500/year to be on the safe side. And presumably, it would be wise to put aside some additional money to cover other breakdowns. Say, $500/year? It comes to around $2K in service and maintenance costs per year. Does that sound about right, for those with experience owning VWs or other euro cars?

that's the MINIMUM you'll pay, for preventative maintenance

you have to factor in extra things needing fixing that is not the preventative maintenance.

$500/ year is if you are very lucky or you don't fix things that need fixing.

if you buy a car that the owner has not fixed things that need fixing and/or have not done preventative maintenance then you could be hit will $5000 just like that. it's all luck of the draw type thing.

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#3204629 8-Mar-2024 19:33

Batman:

if you buy a car that the owner has not fixed things that need fixing and/or have not done preventative maintenance then you could be hit will $5000 just like that. it's all luck of the draw type thing.

It's only luck of the draw if you purchase a used vehicle without reconciling the service history.

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#3204638 8-Mar-2024 20:13

alasta:

Batman:

if you buy a car that the owner has not fixed things that need fixing and/or have not done preventative maintenance then you could be hit will $5000 just like that. it's all luck of the draw type thing.

It's only luck of the draw if you purchase a used vehicle without reconciling the service history.

Used cars with good service histories have significant failures. The are less likely to have failures than cars that aren't serviced but they still have them.

If there's a latent defect that isn't related to servicing then it'll be there whether it's serviced or not.

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#3204641 8-Mar-2024 20:41

alasta:
It's only luck of the draw if you purchase a used vehicle without reconciling the service history.

Sorry but I disagree. That's why it's luck of the draw.

I service all my cars from new and have had a blown engine in a Toyota, cvt solenoid failure in a subaru, cvt failure in a Honda... Upon research these were all known design faults.

Euros, japs, Korean, luck of the draw. Also can research known design faults.

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#3204644 8-Mar-2024 21:38

I'll probably get slammed for suggesting this, and I bet you haven't looked at this car, however the ZB Commodore wagon, turbo 2.0 Litre or 3.6 V6, would possible fit your specs since you've already looked at wagons.

The prices are pretty good, a lot of people are gunshy of them due to Holden leaving the market. Holden guaranteed at least 10 years support.

I have a V6 liftback and I personally know three other people who have either a liftback or wagon, two 2.0 litres and one 3.6. One came from an XR6 to the 2.0 litre, he said the ZB put a smile on his face every time he drove it.

Like any marque they have their niggles but everyone I know raves about their ZB. If, heaven forbid, mine was written off I'd replace it in a heartbeat with another.

The Aussies generally don't like them, but that's mainly because they aren't a true blue, dinky die, Aussie built Commodore. Those Aussies that have dipped their toes into the water generally speak well of them too.

The 2.0 litre is Front Wheel Drive, the 3.6 has a very trick AWD system. They are well equipped. Good performance, great handling, and good fuel economy. I have got down to the low 6's on expressway running, my average overall is probably about 8 L/100k, the 2.0 litre will do better than that.

Euro built, with US built engines and gearboxes. Variants of both engines are in a multitude of vehicles. The V6 is a variant of the engine used in the Aussie Commodores.

This model was still in production in Europe till about a year ago. It was also sold overseas as an Opel, Vauxhall and Buick. Parts should be no more difficult to obtain than most other vehicles.

Servicing costs so far have been on a par with the Aussie Holdens.

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#3204658 8-Mar-2024 23:17

larknz: I bought the car new and had it for almost 3 years and had no problems in that time. One of the reasons I sold it was because of future resale value and potential battery life. I also wasn't happy with the drop off in battery capacity in cold weather, which is something the advocates for EV's never really mention.

Cold weather range doesn't seem to be a big issue in most places for the popular EV models. If it was extreme I'd guess that was something particular to Outlander or the model year.

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#3204659 8-Mar-2024 23:21

I'm guessing if you're looking at a few high km cars your yearly mileage is below 10k?

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#3204661 8-Mar-2024 23:31

Batman:
alasta:
It's only luck of the draw if you purchase a used vehicle without reconciling the service history.

Sorry but I disagree. That's why it's luck of the draw.

I service all my cars from new and have had a blown engine in a Toyota, cvt solenoid failure in a subaru, cvt failure in a Honda... Upon research these were all known design faults.

Euros, japs, Korean, luck of the draw. Also can research known design faults.

That is where the Dog and Lemon guide can be a big help as you could read about all the problems with the different brands and models. But the old big book they used to produce which was like a thick phone book was far better.

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#3204663 9-Mar-2024 01:18

We have a 2020 Tiguan Allspace R-Line. It's been a great car. It's just recently turned 4 and we've done a bit under 50,000kms. The 4 yr service was steep - about $1400AUD, but that scheduled service included a DSG oil change which is $$$. Other services at the dealer have been under $500. They did find a leak in the water pump at this service which was fixed under warranty, which probably wouldn't have been cheap if we were paying. It also had a new set of tyres at about 45,000kms. They still had the factory ones on them, and they did still have some tread but were starting to get a bit noisy. That set me back just under $2k - but the R-Line does have 20" low profiles while the lower trims will have smaller wheels with cheaper tyres.

But we've had no other issues with it. It's a very nice car and with nice cars comes a premium in all things, including maintenance, but I think it's worth it. I'd 100% buy another Tiguan again - maybe an R next time (downside is they don't do an Allspace R)

I have a 2015 Audi A3 which has started making some suspension noise. I'm a bit scared to take it in knowing that whatever it needs is probably not going to be cheap 😬

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#3204724 9-Mar-2024 07:50

mattwnz:

That is where the Dog and Lemon guide can be a big help as you could read about all the problems with the different brands and models. But the old big book they used to produce which was like a thick phone book was far better.

these issues were never and still arent in the dog and lemon book, however those technologies were all 1st generation ones in my cars. they fixed those design faults in their 2nd generation and newer, Toyota, Subaru and Honda.

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#3204923 9-Mar-2024 21:09

I've just driven a Kia Sportage as a rental. I'm not sure how it compares in size to the other SUV's you've been considering but it's got way less room particularly in the luggage area than my Sportback. I was surprised.

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#3205177 10-Mar-2024 22:34

We have a Korando on rental at the moment.
Previous generation (2015 onwards), petrol engine.
5 seats but very spacious.
It is surprisingly competent if a little idiosyncratic.

For context, back in the UK we have a 2009 VW Touareg which is a true SUV.
Sporty, capable off roader, plenty of room inside, will tow 3.5 metric tonnes.

The Korando is (to me) a mock SUV without off road credentials or any real sportiness.
However if you want a spacious 5 seater with a good boot it does a lot of things well.
Easy driving although the steering is a bit floaty.
Decent performance and easy cruising at the speed limit.
Nice up high driving position.

Main downside is for specific conditions.
In this case going over the hill from Nelson to Takaka.
To get the most comfortable gear selection required manual selection.
There is also a large gap between 2nd and 3rd.
However once I got the hang of the manual selection it became quite fun and an effective drive.
It also goes well on gravel roads.
If it was in my price range and I was looking I would consider it.

No infotainment system, reversing camera, Android Auto etc. so the more recent version might be a better option if it is in your price range.

HTH

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#3205180 10-Mar-2024 22:45

Check out these videos from ReDriven Australia - while not NZ these guys do a good job of breaking down the positives and negatives of used cars:

Tiguan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha9KIK7KBCQ

They don't appear to have a specific video about the Outlander (PHEV or otherwise) however these may help:

Worst SUVs to buy in 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=terT6RoOps4

Top SUVs under AUD$35k: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_HweYqmlE

Worst SUVs under AUD$30k: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lZogmYzcww (Tiguan gets an honourable mention here)

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#3205181 10-Mar-2024 23:24

Technofreak:
I've just driven a Kia Sportage as a rental. I'm not sure how it compares in size to the other SUV's you've been considering but it's got way less room particularly in the luggage area than my Sportback. I was surprised.

Sportage is a class smaller than an Outlander and two classes smaller than a Comodore.

The Sorrento is the equivalent of the Outlander in the Kia lineup.

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#3205183 11-Mar-2024 00:45

I just want the OP to remember they asked for opinions. Apologies in advance for what I know is a novel....

Don't get me wrong, I have a 2011 VW Touareg and I LOVE it, but everything about VW is expensive when things start going wrong. Mine came with a full dealer service & repair history when I bought it 5 years ago, which only served to show me the bucketloads of cash the previous owner threw into this thing after the warranty ran out. And I have spent thousands on things that - for any other brand of car - should have been relatively cheap items. The thing with these Germans is they love designing everything (and I mean everything!) to be as complicated as humanly possible, meaning that replacing basic items becomes a herculean task just to remove the failed part in the first place.

Electric tailgate struts, failed - replacement cost $2400 + labour. Only available through the dealer and seemingly cannot easily purchase overseas. I'm living without them and getting a workout with the "Armstrong technique".

Wheel speed/ABS sensors (4), failing one at a time - replacement cost $250 a pop from the dealer, but I bought aftermarket ones off Amazon for $30 each and am replacing them myself as each one fails (just did number 2). Of course I also had to buy the specific 14mm triple square socket because god forbid VW use fasteners for their brake callipers (or anything else for that matter) that the rest of the world uses. I also had to buy the $500 VCDS diagnostic tool to reset the Christmas tree of warning lights on the dashboard that are set off each time an ABS sensor fails. Seriously, the car thinks armadeggon is upon us each time...

Oxygen sensors, likely to fail one at a time, and I have 4 of them. Have replaced one at $595 including 1.5hr labour so far. Too fricken difficult a job to tackle myself due to location. This fault won't strand you, it just throws up the check engine light.

Vehicle specific Varta AMG battery - replacement cost $1200 from dealer. I used an industry contact to source one for $750 but still needed the dealer to program it to the onboard battery management system (otherwise the system won't recognise the new battery and will destroy within a couple of months by overcharging it - clever). Also clever is putting the battery under the electric seat so that when the battery is dead flat, you cannot move the seat to the position required to access the triple square bolts that require removing in order to remove the seat to access the battery well - at least not without jumping it from another battery or vehicle using emergency battery terminals under the bonnet. Genius!

Keyless entry that comes with a plastic key inside the remote fob that is practically useless when the car battery is flat - with a flat battery, the power assist in the door lock is inoperable which virtually guarantees the flimsy plastic key will simply snap in the lock - leaving you completely stranded with no way to gain access even with the help of a locksmith according to VW forum members. The only way to ensure the lock has power assist available in this situation is to jump the car battery - but of course Ze Germans put the battery jump terminals under the bonnet and then designed the bonnet release to be inaccessible when the drivers door is closed. They also put those jump terminals up very high above the engine so as not to be reachable from underneath the car. Oh and bonus points for having deadlocks on all 4 doors so even if you smash a window, you still can't open the driver's door from the inside to access the bonnet release lever. God level a$$hole status achieved!! I read all the horror stories around these amazing "design features" online and got past these minor inconveniences by having an all metal emergency key fabricated before I need it (thanks to my wife for working at a locksmith).

Brakes: VW service manual calls for Touareg brake discs to be replaced every time replacement pads are due, even if the discs aren't worn. For the Touareg, that's around $4000 from the dealer. I was told when I bought mine 5 years ago that the discs would need doing at the next service. I haven't replaced them and it's still passing WOFs, despite the dealer's ardent protests.

Spare tyres - insert evil German accent here: "We shall put what looks like a full size spare in the boot but will make it save space by collapsing it upon itself at the factory and require the driver to inflate it themselves on the roadside using a comically undersized electric pump. But of course they will never be able to collapse the spare back down to fit in the space themselves - they will need our dealer minions to do that for them for a fee. Oh and make sure you use wheel bolts rather than studs, so our customers must kneel and balance a heavy tyre in the air with one hand and a knee while trying to insert bolts into the hub assembly with the other hand hahahahahahha"

The stereo headunits on various VW/Audi models seem to have a self destruct timer and you never know when it will detonate. My friend has a 2009 Touareg and when his one bricked, The local dealer quoted $9000 (not a misprint) to replace it. Fitting aftermarket stereos is troublesome because, you know, VW and their proprietary amplifiers, integrated reverse cameras, onboard settings menus that only display on the stereo etc etc.

Keys - don't lose them as they are up to $1800 a pop and that is IF they are still available. If the seller only has one key, don't buy it!! I got 2 keys with my Touareg but my friend above only got one. He is dealing with this very issue now as his daughter lost that only key. His car is currently parked in my driveway while my locksmithing wife scours the globe for a replacement fob that is capable of being programmed to disable his specific immobiliser.

I haven't had anything major strand me on the side of the road but plenty of VW owners will tell you it's a matter of when rather than if.

No doubt the Tiguan the OP is looking at is a lot newer than the 8 year old Touareg I bought, but make no mistake, as it ages you will need to fix expensive things or learn to live without them, but when you go to sell it, buyers will not forgive functions that no longer.... function. And with specific regard to the Tiguan, many parts under the bonnet are made of plastic that shouldn't be - eg radiators, water pumps etc. This increases the likelihood that they will fail at some point before scheduled replacement.

Put all that aside though, and VWs are beautiful to drive - smooth, refined, quiet, comfortable. I just came back from a trip down south in a friend's Hilux today - on a route I have done dozens of times in my Touareg. Certain parts of the road that I know my Touareg glides over caused moderate whiplash in the Hilux. Yes I know it's not apples vs apples but still. And likely not relevant to the OP, but my Touareg can tow comfortably and effortlessly, all the while using less fuel than my previous 2016 Ranger - even though my Touareg is a V8 diesel monster.

My advice is, if you don't have a specific task in mind that only a VW will do and/or you don't have a repair fund, maybe don't buy it. For me the task is towing heavy loads for long distances comfortably. If I didn't need that, I wouldn't have a Touareg. Because of this need I'm happy to pay what it costs to keep it running well (and I have learned out of necessity how to do basic repairs /maintenance myself but lots of new tools have been required - bloody triple square sockets again!!).

By they way, I use my 2005 Hyundai Getz for driving around town most of the time for inconsequential errands etc. It cost me $2k on a $1 reserve auction, is cheap as chips to run, relatively bullletproof and it's the single cheapest way to reduce wear, frequency of servicing and dollars spent on the VW. True story.

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