The debate over foreign drivers and testing

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MikeB4
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#1246603 25-Feb-2015 18:14

joker97: i thunk people should blame their forefathers who created left and right hand drive.

The videos shown on TV One tonight had nothing to do with left or right hand. It was just plain dangerous stupid driving. The examples one would see on most road trips by cars driven by New Zealanders.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Handle9

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#1246605 25-Feb-2015 18:15

TLD:
surfisup1000:

Who was specifically being racist?

The statistics. Just telling it like it is.

Could you please provide these statistics for the rest of us to see?

Batman

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#1246618 25-Feb-2015 18:25

KiwiNZ:
joker97: i thunk people should blame their forefathers who created left and right hand drive.

The videos shown on TV One tonight had nothing to do with left or right hand. It was just plain dangerous stupid driving. The examples one would see on most road trips by cars driven by New Zealanders.

i also recommend to those who haven't, youtube "russian dash cam" ... guarantee you will suddenly magically practice defensive driving from that time forth

Geektastic

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#1246657 25-Feb-2015 19:55

I'd like to know why NZ has a special problem with this.

The UK is full of continental drivers who are used to driving on the opposite side and the continent is full of Brits. Neither generally leave a trail of carnage in their wake and no special test is required.

I suggest that the problems include

1) The design and construction of NZ roads. They are poor compared to those many drivers overseas are used to (e.g. loose chips instead of hot rolled macadam surface and so on as well as bad junction layouts, lack of median barriers etc )
2) The single track design of most leads to frustration. One lane bridges abound and create choke points bunching drivers etc
3) Lack of decent lighting
4) Poor driving by natives probably contributes as much as poor driving by visitors

I am actually touring the south island with clients at the moment and I have seen some shocking driving from both visitors in hire cars and locals being impatient and aggressive.

Some suggestions

1) Raised and ridged paint for centre lines where median barriers cannot be installed
2) Proper reflecting paint for road markings which contains glass beads and 'lights up' in headlights
3) Raised kerb islands with Keep Left bollards rather than just painted boxes on the road for turning wait areas
4) A 24 hour mandatory rest period between arriving in NZ and taking a hired vehicle if your flight was longer than 4 hours
5) A program of 'Tourist Routes' where road design and layout is re-done to best practice world wide, to create layouts, vision distances, road furniture etc that visitors will find more familiar and react to better
6) A 'foreign driver' levy collected as part of hire car fees to contribute towards the cost of the above

maslink

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#1246696 25-Feb-2015 21:22

All deaths and injuries on the road are tragic, and it would be great if they never happened. Based on the numbers from today's media, it does not appear as though there is any great difference in accident rates involving tourists compared to average national rates. I can believe that it is possible that their rate is slightly higher, but I am sure there are many other categories of people with higher rates per km driven - e.g. male drivers with sports cars.

There are many reasons I can see why not to implement a new tourist drivers licence or test - cost, time ( imagine the queues at airport rental counters), proof of identity if done online. Another good argument that I can see for NZ not to implement a special licence requirement, is that there would quickly be a range of reciprocal requirements for Nzers who travel overseas.

But in the end I believe that main reason I think a test/licence for tourist drivers is ultimately pointless is because the vast majority of incidents ( tourist drivers or not) happen due to inattention, fatigue, distraction or impatience - not because of lack of knowledge.

Speaking from my own experience living and driving in the US, I had no problems when consciously thinking about what I was doing, or following other traffic on busy roads - my near misses all happened on quiet empty roads or ambiguous areas like supermarket car parks, when my brain went into autopilot mode. No driver test will fix this problem - it simply takes time to reprogram the brain.

At the risk of agreeing with the current government, let's spend our time and effort making the roads safer for all that drive on them, rather than singling out this category or that category of drivers and making them jump through pointless hoops.

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#1246704 25-Feb-2015 21:38

just saw the clip of the driver whose keys were confiscated.

i remember when i was driving in third world asian countries, some people don't keep to lane markings, rather veer between cars, because up to 3 cars can be in 1 lane, usually 2. cars bikes and motorcycles are everywhere, so there is no time they look at lane markings. so i don't think they [the some people who drive there] even realise lanes are there.

the can't drive category of NZ locals have other glaring issues, but the lane issue arise from those situations descrivbed

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Batman

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#1246722 25-Feb-2015 22:11

latest article

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11407897

mudguard

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#1246733 25-Feb-2015 22:33

I hope no one messes with rentals too much. I spend two weeks a month in them!

As for the poor folk near Waipu, how can you prevent someone doing a U turn in front of logging truck, in a passing lane?

Handsomedan

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#1246788 26-Feb-2015 08:04

I agree.

There's no way to stop someone doing something that is blatantly stupid beyond belief, through a test, a special licence, a stand-down period or other means of enforcement.

As I stated earlier - it comes down to reflex and instinct and if your reflex is to go to the wrong side of the road, it'll happen - especially on a quiet road or carpark. If your instinct is to be a complete idiot, then that's what will happen - regardless of the conditions or the requirements.

We mostly drive on autpilot, as scary as that sounds, but because we live and drive here for many years, we accept the conditions and rules as if they were our own. They are ingrained in our psyche.

Remember...when we go overseas, we are the said tourists, driving like numpties and causing mayhem everywhere we go...whether we like to think of ourselves that way or not.

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MikeB4

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#1246802 26-Feb-2015 08:47

Handsomedan: I agree.

There's no way to stop someone doing something that is blatantly stupid beyond belief, through a test, a special licence, a stand-down period or other means of enforcement.

As I stated earlier - it comes down to reflex and instinct and if your reflex is to go to the wrong side of the road, it'll happen - especially on a quiet road or carpark. If your instinct is to be a complete idiot, then that's what will happen - regardless of the conditions or the requirements.

We mostly drive on autpilot, as scary as that sounds, but because we live and drive here for many years, we accept the conditions and rules as if they were our own. They are ingrained in our psyche.

Remember...when we go overseas, we are the said tourists, driving like numpties and causing mayhem everywhere we go...whether we like to think of ourselves that way or not.

So easy to believe what our reputation abroad would be when you see our driving here...

Speed limits regarded as an optional guideline.
Following too close.
Unable to comprehend the term "merge like a zip".
Regarding our roads as private race tracks and play grounds.
80% of our cars are apparently sold without indicators or no idea of how to indicate correctly.
Overtaking is a game of chicken.

To name just a few.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

shk292

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#1246804 26-Feb-2015 08:49

Who's going to be the first brave soul to take away the keys of the boy racer doing donuts on the suburban street at midnight? Or the guy using the southern motorway as his private racetrack, weaving between the lanes at 140kph? Or the crowd of leather-clad bikers folllowing far too close and making far too much noise?

I appreciate there are some poor foreign drivers on our roads, but there are many more shocking kiwi ones. These recent stories have an unpleasant whiff of xenophobia to me.

And we need to be very careful of reciprocity. I'm sure I don't want a 24-hour stand down when I rent a car for my 48-hour stopover in USA later this year, nor do I want to queue up for a couple of hours to do a test while my kids wait at the airport.

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solival

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#1246831 26-Feb-2015 09:27

I think it's just enough to install such things near crossroads (where most wrong lanes occur and speed is low) and problem solved. At least punctured tyre is better then dead people. Or they can even be redesigned to not damage tyres but make a noticeable push to remind driver that they are doing something wrong.
one way road

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thegeekboy

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#1246976 26-Feb-2015 11:56

Here's a real world example - and this wasn't picked up by the media as being a foreigner.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11403892

So - this was an accident caused by a person doing a u-turn across a 4-lane road in central Auckland - Ian McKinnon Drive (city end of Dominion Road)
They didn't look - and managed to hit a motorcyclist and a cyclist in the process.
That person was a chinese tourist in a rental car.
Have a look at the photos - the positioning of the vehicles to understand how dangerous and stupid this manoeuvre was.

Both the motorcyclist and cyclist spent the day in hospital with various injuries including concussion. Neither were walking comfortably when they left.

The tourist has since been prosecuted by police for their action.

r055b

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#1246987 26-Feb-2015 12:08

I wonder how many of these accidents are caused by unsafe overtaking ?

I have travelled to about 30 different countries and not driven in all of them but have been in taxis and busses and observed the driving. In some countries if there is no dividing barrier between the lanes then overtaking at any time or place is frequently attempted. Drivers taking massive chances on blind rises and corners happens all the time.

The difference in these counties I think, and I have observed this first hand unfortunately, is that other drivers are expecting this behaviour and if they meet a vehicle on the wrong side of the road both vehicles take evasive action and a few horns are honked. We are not expecting this around every corner. Some large cities overseas are also so congested that speeds are always low and accidents are minor annoyances rather than violent crashes where people get killed.

Maybe driving at speed is something new for some drivers.

ScuL

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#1247023 26-Feb-2015 12:51

joker97: i thunk people should blame their forefathers who created left and right hand drive.

Hehe goes back to the days of Napoleon :)

I have also noticed a flood of these "ranty" type articles pointing the finger at foreign drivers being published by Stuff & NZ Herald lately.
They do a very good job at making my blood boil.

In the first place; there are international agreements towards validity of driving licenses across borders. These agreements allow any driver from qualifying countries to drive in NZ and vice versa. If there is statistic evidence that drivers from certain countries contribute towards unsafer roads then maybe the agreements with these countries need to be reviewed.
The "knee jerk" type responses I read on social media on the back of these articles are absolutely infuriating.
In the first place they tend to be made by Kiwis who have often never left their own country and therefore have very little experience what it is like in other countries.
In the second place because Kiwi drivers are not holy and there is some appalling driving displayed by local drivers on a daily basis.

If these international rules did not exist, vehicular traffic in Western Europe would be absolute mayhem. In some areas people cross borders with their vehicles multiple times per day, it would be absolute non-sense to make people sit an exam every time they cross a border. Last summer we drove from the UK to Croatia, crossing through 10 countries. It's absolutely ludicrous to expect a driver to sit 10 driving tests for every territory they cross through.
If NZ one-sidedly were to introduce tests for foreigners, it would most certainly impact the treatment of NZ licenses abroad.

Here in the UK an NZ license can be swapped for a full UK license without questions asked.
Vice versa, when a Brit moves to NZ the UK license can be swapped for a full NZ license.
Makes a lot of sense, we drive on the same side of the road and the traffic systems are fairly similar.
Now, to introduce a driving test for a British tourist visiting NZ because he is a "foreigner" is not only cumbersome but discriminatory.

Geektastic: I'd like to know why NZ has a special problem with this.

The UK is full of continental drivers who are used to driving on the opposite side and the continent is full of Brits. Neither generally leave a trail of carnage in their wake and no special test is required.

Every year, just by Eurotunnel 10.6 MILLION vehicles cross between the UK (driving on the left) and France (driving on the right).
This equates to nearly 30,000 vehicles EVERY day, not even counting the amount of traffic crossing via ferry.
All these people are driving on a different side of the road without taking a test. Why aren't there masses of incidents and head-on collisions on both sides of the Channel?
Well it has partially to do with common sense but also the constant reminders on which side you need to be on.
Traffic density is so high that you rarely go without seeing another vehicle approaching you, whereas in the Southern Alps it can sometimes take 5 or 10 minutes before you see another car heading towards you.
Secondly, the road infrastructure in NZ is "basic", indeed as suggested adding traffic aisles, bollards with arrows and more barriers would certainly be more helpful as reminders.

Critical are also areas where people are pulling out of, back on to the main road, such as petrol stations and car parks. Arrows or information panels could be of assistance there.

But a blanket test for foreigners? No way..

Haere taka mua, taka muri; kaua e wha.

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