Electric vehicles

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Electric vehicles

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Mad Scientist
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#1324402 14-Jun-2015 12:37

Dratsab:
joker97: They better have airbags for pedestrians

Why? It's well past time pedestrians learned to take responsibility for actually looking when they step out on a road.

They don't have to be on a road to get killed

Batman

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#1324403 14-Jun-2015 12:38

And some people can't see straight ahead, most can't see round corners

old3eyes

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#1324408 14-Jun-2015 12:55

grant_k:
raytaylor: ...
4) Solar export metering and wind
Some here complain that our power supply is based on hydro supplemented with coal.
However with the increase in solar or wind export metering, it means that the hydro demand is reduced during daylight hours. Coal can eventually be switched off, then hydro output lowered, which increases water reserves for night-time use.

I think you'll find that coal was switched off some time ago. Huntly power station is the only remaining one I'm aware of that originally used coal, however its 3 remaining generating units have been converted to natural gas over the past decade or so. Meremere used coal exclusively, however it was demolished many years ago.

The buildings still there as a party of some treaty settlement. Not sure what's it's used for now as it seems empty..

Regards,

Old3eyes

grant_k

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#1324421 14-Jun-2015 13:17

old3eyes:
grant_k:
raytaylor: ...
4) Solar export metering and wind
Some here complain that our power supply is based on hydro supplemented with coal.
However with the increase in solar or wind export metering, it means that the hydro demand is reduced during daylight hours. Coal can eventually be switched off, then hydro output lowered, which increases water reserves for night-time use.

I think you'll find that coal was switched off some time ago. Huntly power station is the only remaining one I'm aware of that originally used coal, however its 3 remaining generating units have been converted to natural gas over the past decade or so. Meremere used coal exclusively, however it was demolished many years ago.

The buildings still there as a party of some treaty settlement. Not sure what's it's used for now as it seems empty..

Last I saw it was being used by Nikau Contractors, a demolition company. I noticed they reclad the main building after all the generation plant was stripped out.

tdgeek

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#1324425 14-Jun-2015 13:21

kemosabe: Anybody have or seen an imported Prius PHV (PHEV) in NZ.

2012 models are available second hand in Japan and should be able to be landed in NZ for $22,000 to $25,000 now. Just wonder if there is any compliance issue in NZ for them.

At utpo 25km range per charge, that would do the work run for a fair amount of people (if able to charge at work)

25km? Hmm, thats pretty tight. yes there will be some that it is workable. Someone mentioned 500km? My M/Bike does 400km, i'd be happy with a commuter that did 200km

dwl

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#1324443 14-Jun-2015 14:07

old3eyes:
MikeB4: The pedestrian warning sound should be compulsory and Protected from tampering

How do you get on then when a trolley bus is coming along?? They don't have warning devices. If people can't look when they cross a road then don't go out..

There don't seem to be any rules on the Prius or Camry hybrid and several times they have surprised me with their silence, especially in car parks. Bicycles can be deadly quiet and can cause a surprising amount of damage if going fast. If going to make warning compulsory then how about all those existing hybrids.

dwl

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#1324444 14-Jun-2015 14:16

tdgeek: RUC are partly to maintain the roads? If so, then you'd expect they would have to contribute. Hub Odometer, battery replacement cost, high initial cost, may make penetration difficult. Perhaps enforce a monthly auto payment for battery via hub odometer for RUC to allow a scenario where battery replacement is built into daily running costs, thereby invisible when having to replace, or buy/sell an EV

RUC is easy to do - use the same approach as used for diesel cars. The government has chosen to extend the exemption until 2020 for full EVs.

This gets into a very hard area with PHEV as they do pay a share via petrol costs but if that is only a tiny percentage of their total fuel (e.g. say 90% of "fuel" is charge from 230V at home) then that contribution can become minimal.

I would assume that while the number of PHEV or pure EV remain a small percentage of the fleet then not a big loss of funds but it won't be many years before some clever thinking will be needed on funding of the roads by these users. EV could be done on odometer but PHEV harder.

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kemosabe

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#1324445 14-Jun-2015 14:25

dwl:
tdgeek: RUC are partly to maintain the roads? If so, then you'd expect they would have to contribute. Hub Odometer, battery replacement cost, high initial cost, may make penetration difficult. Perhaps enforce a monthly auto payment for battery via hub odometer for RUC to allow a scenario where battery replacement is built into daily running costs, thereby invisible when having to replace, or buy/sell an EV

RUC is easy to do - use the same approach as used for diesel cars. The government has chosen to extend the exemption until 2020 for full EVs.

This gets into a very hard area with PHEV as they do pay a share via petrol costs but if that is only a tiny percentage of their total fuel (e.g. say 90% of "fuel" is charge from 230V at home) then that contribution can become minimal.

I would assume that while the number of PHEV or pure EV remain a small percentage of the fleet then not a big loss of funds but it won't be many years before some clever thinking will be needed on funding of the roads by these users. EV could be done on odometer but PHEV harder.

When the fleet of PHEV or even EV gets big enough they will just add the tax to power.

Scott3

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#1324675 15-Jun-2015 00:30

I am a big fan of electric cars, Drove a Tesla Model S in San Francisco. Best Car I have ever driven by far, although my current car is a 2006 corolla hatchback, so I am not used to cars in that price range. Very fast (I had the S85 model, not the performance variant), acceleration super smooth. A single speed transmission is awesome. Was loaded with lots of cool tech too. Headroom in the back seat is quite low which surprised me for a car of this class.

If anybody wants to try out an EV in Auckland there is a company called Blue Cars that rents them (no affiliation, just a custermer). I rented a Nissan Leaf on Waiheke Island. Cost is not much more than the normal rental cars there (and the EV's are much more modern than the cars of competing companies), and is cheaper than taking your car on the car ferry if you are going for a day trip too.

Nissan Leaf was quite nice. Much faster than my corolla in the 0-60 kmph range (not really any high speed roads on waiheke). Very easy to scrub the front tires when accelerating away from an intersection with poor sight lines. Felt under-tired, or like a RWD configuration would have been more appropriate. Japanese on the displays (rental was ex Japan) annoys me (wish this could be switched to English, come on Nissan, its a global car so you already have the English code....). I felt the drivers seat could have been more comfortable (spose you aren't going to do any multi hour non stop trips in the leaf anyway)

Generally I really liked the leaf, and I would like to buy one, But currently we do not do enough KM's in our car too justify the cost. (I bike too work, like 2.5km, and my partner studies (mostly at home, contact days only about 20% of the course). Currently we share a car, and need to retain at least a car that can do intercity trips.

Now that we can get ex Japan EV's fairly cheaply I would expect them to become quite popular. If you were a long distance commuter, and could plug in work the business case looks pretty good:

You could pick up a jap import 2011 model year for under $20k off trade-me, for comparison a (generally inferior) 2011 Nissan tidda is $12$-15K. If you commuted 50 km each way 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year at $2/L gas, at 7.8L/100km (source) you would offset $3744 of petrol a year. This would make for a pretty short payback time.

Plenty of households have multiple cars, so built in cover for infrequent intercity trips.

EV's are getting more popular In Auckland, saw both charging points at Sylva park being used by nissan leafs on Saterday afternoon. According to Juice point as at May 2015 there were 427 EV's or PHEV's in NZ.

I quite like the Outlander PHEV. It is priced quire sharply and I see quite a few around. For some reason they have reduced the braked tow rating in NZ to 750Kg despite it being 1500kg in Europe and Austraila.

I don't understand the concern about pedestrian warning noise. Luxury cars are often inaudible at low speeds, along with hybrid and bicycles. I don't see anybody wanting for noise-makers on bikes and Luxury cars. Why should EV's be treated any different. The ex Japan Nissan leaf I drove I think had one. Couldn't notice if from the drivers seat, so while I am against unnecessary noise, it had no impact on me.

When the fleet of PHEV or even EV gets big enough they will just add the tax to power.

Kinda a bit hard to implement when you can plug your EV in through the kitchen window next to the toaster, unless you want to tax road user charges on toaster use also...

I think the current RUC system is a better choice. (petrol) PHEV's will get taxed twice, once on the total KM's they drive, and again on any petrol they use. Not really fair, but given that we would expect 80% odd of travel to be on electric not really a deal breaker to screw their economics. Kinda in the same category as charging road user petrol tax on chainsaw, petrol generator, and private boat fuel use.

kemosabe

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#1324677 15-Jun-2015 00:57

Until we get Tesla style super chargers spread around NZ, I dont see pure EV working for most typical users. To me the most logical approach is PHEV so you have some space and can go as far as you like. At 2-3 l/100km the cost of fuel becomes incredibly cheap in comparison to pretty much any other vehicle.

Over 3 years and 60,000 km taking into account buy price, expected resale, fuel, insurance and maintenance costs; you can easily justify a hybrid or good condition second hand PHEV.

Hence my interest in importing a Prius PHV, just not sure if I will have a compliance issue as haven't seen or heard of any in NZ.

k1wi

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#1324678 15-Jun-2015 02:49

Eventually all car will have GPS monitors in them that will keep track of where you drive and when. You will be charged accordingly, probably dependent on the class of vehicle you drive (higher charge for larger vehicles, lower charge for environmentally friendly cars). This will lead to 'innovative' solutions such as variable congestion charges, so if you commute on busy urban roads and highways during rush hour you pay for that privilege. All the information will be kept with the Ministry of Information, and will be 'anonymous' of course, but not really.

frankv

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#1324690 15-Jun-2015 07:11

People who questioned my figure of 97% efficiency for electric motors were correct... 96% seems to be about the best possible, with car-sized motors in the 80-94% range.

I don't see hydrogen power as viable... it simply doesn't have the necessary energy density.

I await the arrival of aluminium batteries, which I think should make EVs about as usable as CNG used to be.

MikeB4

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#1324704 15-Jun-2015 07:54

old3eyes:
MikeB4: The pedestrian warning sound should be compulsory and Protected from tampering

How do you get on then when a trolley bus is coming along?? They don't have warning devices. If people can't look when they cross a road then don't go out..

What about the blind, the young ?

heylinb4nz

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#1324712 15-Jun-2015 08:14

Im working with a guy at the moment who is trying to setup a charging network and import EVs to sell through a NZ wide franchise network.

Hes pretty close, even had cars crash tested to gain ANCAP ratings.

Prices make the other offerings look like they are gold plated.

Will keep you posted.

dwl

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#1324717 15-Jun-2015 08:22

MikeB4:
old3eyes:
MikeB4: The pedestrian warning sound should be compulsory and Protected from tampering

How do you get on then when a trolley bus is coming along?? They don't have warning devices. If people can't look when they cross a road then don't go out..

What about the blind, the young ?

The driver remains responsible for taking all reasonable precautions and driving defensively. What about a Prius?

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