Why Self-Driving Cars Must Be Programmed to Kill

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Why Self-Driving Cars Must Be Programmed to Kill

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | ... | 13

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1420743 4-Nov-2015 13:34

geocom:
SJB: As a software developer I am NEVER, EVER getting in a self drive car, taxi or bus.

And anyone who does or decides to buy one should be sectioned as soon as possible.

Well you should never get on an aircraft as well then.

Flying in a plane on auto pilot is considerably different

geocom

594 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#1420758 4-Nov-2015 13:44

MikeB4:
geocom:
SJB: As a software developer I am NEVER, EVER getting in a self drive car, taxi or bus.

And anyone who does or decides to buy one should be sectioned as soon as possible.

Well you should never get on an aircraft as well then.

Flying in a plane on auto pilot is considerably different

How so. They take sensor data in and decide what to do with it. Planes also fly in corridors much like cars on roads do. The way jets are flown is in many ways similar to how we deal with cars.

Geoff E

SaltyNZ

8227 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#1420785 4-Nov-2015 13:44

geocom:
How could it be any more disastrous than what we currently have?

People drive drunk or drugged.
People drive tired.
People get angry.
People drive without a licence.
People make bad decisions.

I could go on but this would be a rather long list.

People don't hacked
People don't delay you for an hour because of a mandatory firmware update that must be installed before you're allowed to drive away
People don't suddenly refuse to drive because the manufacturer doesn't like the fact you got your car serviced at the local mechanic rather than the dealer
People don't go blind if a bird craps on the windscreen
People don't forget where they are if GPS drops out for thirty seconds

I could go but this would be a rather long list too.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

SaltyNZ

8227 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#1420790 4-Nov-2015 13:47

geocom:
MikeB4:
geocom:
SJB: As a software developer I am NEVER, EVER getting in a self drive car, taxi or bus.

And anyone who does or decides to buy one should be sectioned as soon as possible.

Well you should never get on an aircraft as well then.

Flying in a plane on auto pilot is considerably different

How so. They take sensor data in and decide what to do with it. Planes also fly in corridors much like cars on roads do. The way jets are flown is in many ways similar to how we deal with cars.

Planes fly in straight lines from A to B with air traffic control on the ground going to great lengths to ensure they never approach each other more closely than several kilometres apart. Planes don't have to worry about things jumping out in front of them... Or at least, those times when they do, the pilot takes over to save the day.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1420792 4-Nov-2015 13:49

geocom:
MikeB4:
geocom:
SJB: As a software developer I am NEVER, EVER getting in a self drive car, taxi or bus.

And anyone who does or decides to buy one should be sectioned as soon as possible.

Well you should never get on an aircraft as well then.

Flying in a plane on auto pilot is considerably different

How so. They take sensor data in and decide what to do with it. Planes also fly in corridors much like cars on roads do. The way jets are flown is in many ways similar to how we deal with cars.

So we will have a huge staff of auto controllers sitting in control towers with video and radar imagery to assist. At 25,000+ feet there is no bouncing balls followed by a child, a sudden fallen tree, cats or dogs or sheep or cows. Every flight has a logged flight plan
will the car need a logged drive plan..........

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1420802 4-Nov-2015 14:01

Inb4 the cars communicate to each other and have a point system for Cyclists hit.

geocom

594 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#1420803 4-Nov-2015 14:02

SaltyNZ:
geocom:
How could it be any more disastrous than what we currently have?

People drive drunk or drugged.
People drive tired.
People get angry.
People drive without a licence.
People make bad decisions.

I could go on but this would be a rather long list.

People don't hacked
People don't delay you for an hour because of a mandatory firmware update that must be installed before you're allowed to drive away
People don't suddenly refuse to drive because the manufacturer doesn't like the fact you got your car serviced at the local mechanic rather than the dealer
People don't go blind if a bird craps on the windscreen
People don't forget where they are if GPS drops out for thirty seconds

I could go but this would be a rather long list too.

People do get hacked. How else would advertising work or phishing attacks.
People get hit with sun strike and go blind
What self driving car would use only GPS for navigation

Planes fly in straight lines from A to B with air traffic control on the ground going to great lengths to ensure they never approach each other more closely than several kilometres apart. Planes don't have to worry about things jumping out in front of them... Or at least, those times when they do, the pilot takes over to save the day.

You obviously don't care about all the flights that went down because of pilot error or air traffic error.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Airliner_accidents_and_incidents_caused_by_pilot_error

TCAS actually looks after flights to make sure they don't get too close. This is an automated system on the plane

And with the hudson landing the flight was saved by the pilot because he turned on the APU which gave power to the flight computer and helped him land the plane.

Geoff E

Tradepub

Free professional, reference and technical white papers (affiliate link).

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1420807 4-Nov-2015 14:07

I stand by my earlier post " honestly believe that autonomous vehicles on public roads is going to go horribly wrong. I hope I am wrong but my gut tells me different.

One fear I have is there will be some out there who believe they know better than the developers and will hack their vehicles with disastrous results."

SaltyNZ

8227 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#1420817 4-Nov-2015 14:21

geocom:

People do get hacked. How else would advertising work or phishing attacks.

Typically, people would ignore advertising that tells them to increase speed to maximum and then steer directly into the nearest solid object. Indeed, typically people know they're being advertised at. It is not even in principle possible for a computer to know that it has been subverted. It's like you trying to picture the 4th dimension in your head: your brain isn't wired to do it.

People get hit with sun strike and go blind

And whilst it can be dangerous, people are able to flip down the sun shade/clean their glasses/whatever. If your car's camera gets pooped on you stop - wherever you are - and get out to clean it.

What self driving car would use only GPS for navigation

I'm sure none use it exclusively, but GPS is easily jammed. One could cause chaos by jamming GPS in a downtown area to suddenly convince all the self-driving cars in the area they were 500m south of their actual position. It is suspected Iran did exactly that to steal an expensive American stealth drone, and even if you don't believe that particular story is true, GPS jamming & subversion is very much a real thing.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18659 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1420824 4-Nov-2015 14:31

I think this thread has gone way off the rails. You are all arguing about extreme hypothetical situations, not real world likelihoods. It has become a debate about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Any of the scenarios posited might or might not be theoretically possible, but are so unlikely as to be unworthy of serious consideration. For my part, I would be reluctant to trust any autonomous vehicle for the same reasons my various computers go berserk from time to time, only with less dire consequences. But given enough time, I would probably get used to the idea, as long as the car's software wasn't provided by Microsoft.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

SaltyNZ

8227 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#1420831 4-Nov-2015 14:34

Well, given that it happens every to thousands of people, I stand by my (and Mike's) assertion that if the car is run by a computer, it can and will be hacked sooner or later, and it will be a disaster. I don't think it's hypothetical at all. The only reason it hasn't already happened is because the potential target audience is currently tiny.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1420846 4-Nov-2015 14:46

The last thing you will want to see going down the Rimutaka Hill or travelling the Auckland motorway.

andrew027

1286 posts

Uber Geek

#1420852 4-Nov-2015 14:53

Rikkitic: ...given enough time, I would probably get used to the idea, as long as the car's software wasn't provided by Microsoft.

That reminds me of a joke...

DizzyD

523 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1420856 4-Nov-2015 14:57

MikeB4: The last thing you will want to see going down the Rimutaka Hill or travelling the Auckland motorway.

It is for this very reason that certain software (traffic control software/life depended software in hospitals etc..) is designed from the ground up. It does not rely on software/or an OS from another supplier. People who believe these vehicles will be running on Windows or Java are being extremely naive

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1420859 4-Nov-2015 15:00

DizzyD:
MikeB4: The last thing you will want to see going down the Rimutaka Hill or travelling the Auckland motorway.

It is for this very reason that certain software (traffic control software/life depended software in hospitals etc..) is designed from the ground up. It does not rely on software/or an OS from another supplier. People who believe these vehicles will be running on Windows or Java are being extremely naive

Pssst , turn the little switch on the left, no up a bit, over a little , that's it. Its the humour switch to toggle on :p

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | ... | 13