Ditch Road User Charges?

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#2284256 26-Jul-2019 14:49

Obraik:
tdgeek:

Obraik:
tdgeek:

We know how the math works. There is no process for EV yet. Or Hybrids. Isn't all this under consultation?

At this stage, when the exemption expires EVs will go back to paying the same light vehicle rate that diesel cars and utes pay, as they did before the exemption was added.

Ok, so itsbeen decided by the Government that EVs will go back to paying the same light vehicle rate that diesel cars and utes pay, as they did before the exemption was added, and that there will be no changes to cater for Hybrids.

I must have missed that in their consultation plan....

I guess you did 🙃

Well I guess they dont need consultation on RUC's as its already set in stone

What was the previous process for hybrids?

kotuku4

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#2284257 26-Jul-2019 14:51

I too pay taxes, rates, rego on cars, trailer, motorcycle currently on hold.

Preferred commute by Ebike, kids all bike. Would like to replace one car with EV.

Hardly any cycle lanes in my town. One very limited bus route and timetable.

We need to encourage people to cycle, walk and use public transport where it exists. For savings in health, environment, and importation of oil.

Do you tax people who use the special lanes on the side of the road (footpaths)? Walk, scooter, wheel chair, mobility scooter, pram?

Yes we all need to pay a fair share of the roads we use.

There are lots of industries that use diesel off road in addition to farming; rail, marine, construction, warehouse, forestry, many vineyard frost fans and irrigation pumps.

Obraik

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#2284258 26-Jul-2019 14:52

tdgeek:

Well I guess they dont need consultation on RUC's as its already set in stone

What was the previous process for hybrids?

Hybrids have never had a previous process. They're considered a petrol car so they only pay RUC via the petrol they fill up with.

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old3eyes

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#2284259 26-Jul-2019 14:52

Wheelbarrow01:

I don't want to give them ideas, but nek minnit our grand imperial leader and her ilk will be proposing stamp duty on all vehicle purchases. This raises a significant amount of revenue in the Australian states every year. Just to give you an example, if all 10,000 people who bought a brand new Ford Ranger in NZ last year was obligated to pay stamp duty at the prescribed New South Wales rate, it would raise $27 million.

Of course stamp duty applies to all car sales in Australia - both new and used. One estimate I found points to revenue from stamp duty Australia wide being in excess of $3.2 billion annually. Scale that back to the NZ population, and you're still looking at $623 million annually, which is hardly chump change.

Also in Ozz they pay a luxury tax on new cars . I think it is something $70 grand and over.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#2284265 26-Jul-2019 14:58

Obraik:

tdgeek:

Well I guess they dont need consultation on RUC's as its already set in stone

What was the previous process for hybrids?

Hybrids have never had a previous process. They're considered a petrol car so they only pay RUC via the petrol they fill up with.

What was the previous process for pure EV's?

tdgeek

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#2284268 26-Jul-2019 15:03

Given that on 1 Aug 2012 when RUC exemptions came into effect, later extended till they are 2% , I doubt there was a process for EV's. How many EV's in NZ in Aug 2012? 5?

So, when current RUC exemptions cease, pure EV's will not have a process as there is none. So, one will be created, which no doubt will be created to include the electrical usage of hybrids. So we go back to consultation

kharris

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#2284273 26-Jul-2019 15:14

I agree that in a perfect world cyclists shouldn’t have to pay but it’s not perfect and it’s not wear and tear they are paying for. Cyclists should help pay for the extra infrastructure on the roads to make it safer for them. I also agree that much of this is far from perfect but never the less costs a lot to implement. User pays for everyone. Fair is fair.

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#2284278 26-Jul-2019 15:24

Nicely thought out and I absolutely agree.
I also agree it is not that fair that those that are not in urban areas are paying for cycleways that they don’t have. But I have 2 thoughts on that. 1. I think you are lucky that you don’t line in the clutter of the city, and 2. It’s similar to the gold cards for the retired. Some get nothing, while others get free buses, free ferries and other services. Not fair, but the way it is.

kotuku4:
I too pay taxes, rates, rego on cars, trailer, motorcycle currently on hold.

Preferred commute by Ebike, kids all bike. Would like to replace one car with EV.

Hardly any cycle lanes in my town. One very limited bus route and timetable.

We need to encourage people to cycle, walk and use public transport where it exists. For savings in health, environment, and importation of oil.

Do you tax people who use the special lanes on the side of the road (footpaths)? Walk, scooter, wheel chair, mobility scooter, pram?

Yes we all need to pay a fair share of the roads we use.

There are lots of industries that use diesel off road in addition to farming; rail, marine, construction, warehouse, forestry, many vineyard frost fans and irrigation pumps.

Kirk

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#2284282 26-Jul-2019 15:29

tdgeek:

Given that on 1 Aug 2012 when RUC exemptions came into effect, later extended till they are 2% , I doubt there was a process for EV's. How many EV's in NZ in Aug 2012? 5?

So, when current RUC exemptions cease, pure EV's will not have a process as there is none. So, one will be created, which no doubt will be created to include the electrical usage of hybrids. So we go back to consultation

In 2012 there were 180 EVs registered. At that time, they paid RUC.

The current "Clean Cars Proposal" makes no mention of any changes to the RUC system for consultation, only that the exemption for EVs will expire and be replaced with an EV subsidy.

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wellygary

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#2284294 26-Jul-2019 15:41

tdgeek:

Given that on 1 Aug 2012 when RUC exemptions came into effect, later extended till they are 2% , I doubt there was a process for EV's. How many EV's in NZ in Aug 2012? 5?

So, when current RUC exemptions cease, pure EV's will not have a process as there is none. So, one will be created, which no doubt will be created to include the electrical usage of hybrids. So we go back to consultation

Nope, all the legal and other "machinery" to levy RUC on EVs exist now.

The Road User Charges Act 2012 (enacted Feb 2012) includes EVs ( they just have a specific exemption in a later clause)

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2012/0001/70.0/whole.html

5 Interpretation

light RUC vehicle—

(a) means a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle mass of 3 500 kilograms or less and with motive power that is not wholly derived from petrol; and (b) includes a light electric RUC vehicle

7 Requirement to pay road user charges

Road user charges are payable in respect of the operation of a RUC vehicle.

When the exemption is removed,

EVS are simply treated the same as any other light non petrol powered car, ( diesels etc) and are required to go and get RUC...

There is no need to consult on any new legislation or regulations other than removing the exemption (which they are doing now)

evilengineer

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#2284335 26-Jul-2019 17:12

kharris:

I agree that in a perfect world cyclists shouldn’t have to pay but it’s not perfect and it’s not wear and tear they are paying for. Cyclists should help pay for the extra infrastructure on the roads to make it safer for them. I also agree that much of this is far from perfect but never the less costs a lot to implement. User pays for everyone. Fair is fair.

User pays is all well and good. But what about the uncosted benefits of someone cycling to work instead of driving?

eg. Less congestion so less need to expand the road network, next to no wear and tear on the road surface compared to a car or ute, reduced health expenditure because the cyclist is fitter, reduced carbon emissions and better air quality (see also reduced health expenditure) etc.....

Seems like a bargain when you compare the price of the odd cycle lane to a new a road. Not quite sure what all this infrastructure cyclists require would be. A bike rack at work, maybe?

There are all sorts of instances where "user pays" just doesn't work from a societal benefit perspective. Why not charge people for the "full cost" of having children and the resultant burden on the state or charge old people for the audacity of existing and not having popped their clogs at 60 before the bills start rolling in? 😀

tdgeek

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#2284354 26-Jul-2019 18:41

wellygary:

tdgeek:

Given that on 1 Aug 2012 when RUC exemptions came into effect, later extended till they are 2% , I doubt there was a process for EV's. How many EV's in NZ in Aug 2012? 5?

So, when current RUC exemptions cease, pure EV's will not have a process as there is none. So, one will be created, which no doubt will be created to include the electrical usage of hybrids. So we go back to consultation

Nope, all the legal and other "machinery" to levy RUC on EVs exist now.

The Road User Charges Act 2012 (enacted Feb 2012) includes EVs ( they just have a specific exemption in a later clause)

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2012/0001/70.0/whole.html

5 Interpretation

light RUC vehicle—

(a) means a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle mass of 3 500 kilograms or less and with motive power that is not wholly derived from petrol; and (b) includes a light electric RUC vehicle

7 Requirement to pay road user charges

Road user charges are payable in respect of the operation of a RUC vehicle.

When the exemption is removed,

EVS are simply treated the same as any other light non petrol powered car, ( diesels etc) and are required to go and get RUC...

There is no need to consult on any new legislation or regulations other than removing the exemption (which they are doing now)

The issue is Hybrids, where a good use case to get one is short daily commutes which will often be electric only, so they can squeak by with an electric cost of 30c per litre equivalent and no RUC whereas EV will pay 30c + RUC of around 70c.

scuwp

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#2284379 26-Jul-2019 19:07

kharris:

I agree that in a perfect world cyclists shouldn’t have to pay but it’s not perfect and it’s not wear and tear they are paying for. Cyclists should help pay for the extra infrastructure on the roads to make it safer for them. I also agree that much of this is far from perfect but never the less costs a lot to implement. User pays for everyone. Fair is fair.

http://cyclingchristchurch.co.nz/2013/02/18/mythbusting-cyclists-dont-pay/

Something like 70% of diesel fuel is used off road. To get rid of RUC and put it on the gas would costs a fortune setting up and reunning a refund sceme. This was discounted in the last RUC review in 2012. Our RUC system is actually the envy of plenty of other countries, including AU.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

raytaylor

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#2284400 26-Jul-2019 20:14

Kyanar:

Meaning you are way off base in your anti-cyclist rant.

One can never be off base when engaged in an anti-cyclist rant :-P

Ray Taylor

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#2284402 26-Jul-2019 20:17

scuwp:

Something like 70% of diesel fuel is used off road. To get rid of RUC and put it on the gas would costs a fortune setting up and reunning a refund sceme. This was discounted in the last RUC review in 2012. Our RUC system is actually the envy of plenty of other countries, including AU.

Every time i take my car on to a farm or drive up a hill i have to fill in my log book.

Its better than emptying the fuel tank and temporarily filling it with orange diesel, or putting orange diesel in our backup generators and having to buy it from special service stations.

Ray Taylor

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