Last day before 3Apr to oppose 30kmh speed limit

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Last day before 3Apr to oppose 30kmh speed limit

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671 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2896360 3-Apr-2022 19:23

RUKI: Re: cyclist's safety. Be honest and tell me this:
Have you or your kids ever being told at school this safety rule:
"Do not ride your bicycle while you are crossing road on pedestrian crossing? Get off and walk accross holding the bicycle by hand" Anyone?
Judging by what I saw during last 20 years - looks like this safety rule had never being learnt in NZ schools. Do not expect the car traveling at 30kmh being able to stop in time when such idiot jumps in front of it on pedestrian crossing....
Another safety related observation:
On my street with 40kmh limit and 2 schools in proximity I regularly see cyclists and scateboardists without helmets...
They put their life in danger and 30kmh speed limit won't save them...

I’ll comment on only one point of this. If, as a cyclist (or pedestrian) you are hit by a car, whether or not you’re wearing a helmet is likely to be the least of your worries.

blackjack17

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Uber Geek

#2896370 3-Apr-2022 19:42

RUKI:
Do not expect the car traveling at 30kmh being able to stop in time when such idiot jumps in front of it on pedestrian crossing....

They put their life in danger and 30kmh speed limit won't save them...

Slower you are going the greater the chance that they will survive even if they are not following the road rules.

The penalty for a mistake/stupidity/carelessness should not be death.

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lxsw20

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#2896421 3-Apr-2022 20:31

While I can see why people are not a fan of the 30kph limit. I think if you believe car's can't easily do 30k will be a good reason, you're pushing the proverbial uphill.

Jase2985

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#2896422 3-Apr-2022 20:39

Gurezaemon:

Batman:

well statistically half the people are above average and half are below average

Being an average NZ driver is not exactly a high bar to reach for.

isnt that half the problem though? woeful driver training?

RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#2896428 3-Apr-2022 21:06

Stand for 30 minutes at any busy traffic light and take a notice how many people will start crossing, staring into their phones and not having a quick glance to both sides where the cars could come from....
Those pedestrians could be saved by the new 30kmh rule and one day will become drivers, who, regardless of the speed limit will still be staring at their phones while driving.... I see a lot of such drivers around. That is scary...

P.S. I have road sign recognition feature projecting on the windshield current speed limit and my speed, and voice prompts about it, so the eyes are ALWAYS on the road, car's software has pedestrian recognition feature which automatically applies brakes and my multiple lens camera records the speed. Nowadays you have to be prepared for anything.... Point being as a driver you have to protect yourself, but pedestrians and cyclists seems not to care much...

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Geektastic

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#2896433 3-Apr-2022 21:17

Bung:
Obraik:

We've had 30km/h speed limits in the Christchurch CBD for many years now and we seem to be able to cope. Are gear boxes different in Auckland?

You survive because the Police do little or no enforcement. A lot of 30 zones are too short for them to do so.

If you ever get a car with a limit function set it to 30 and see how many vehicles really do 30 rather than something closer to 40.

Why do they not just do what police forces around the world do and put in speed cameras?

SheriffNZ

671 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2896442 3-Apr-2022 21:40

RUKI: Point being as a driver you have to protect yourself, but pedestrians and cyclists seems not to care much...

Point being, a good society looks after its weakest members.

I don’t know any cyclist that hasn’t had a scary incident with a car (or bigger) which has been entirely the drivers fault.

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Geektastic

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#2896466 3-Apr-2022 23:00

SheriffNZ:
RUKI: Point being as a driver you have to protect yourself, but pedestrians and cyclists seems not to care much...

Point being, a good society looks after its weakest members.

I don’t know any cyclist that hasn’t had a scary incident with a car (or bigger) which has been entirely the drivers fault.

That’s a relatively modern definition of a ‘good’ society.

RUKI

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Uber Geek

#2896469 3-Apr-2022 23:20

In response to those saying - "the trip will only be 1 minute longer." Seriously?
Math is not you best friend, then.
Assume you drive 15000km p.a. and 9000kms of that are urban driving on those 1600 roads with a speed limit 30kmh in Auckland.
Using round numbers just to train your brain without using calculator.
So, 9000/30 = 300 hours. If the speed was 50, it is 180 hours.
So, you just lost 120 hours p.a. of your coding @$100/hour. Well, you just lost $12.000 p.a. Civil contractor earns more, by the way.
How many millions in lost productivity?
Of course life is priceless (heaps of hypocrite would say straight away), then stop selling cigarettes...

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insane

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#2896472 4-Apr-2022 00:31

I think the biggest gripe people are having with this speed change is not about the pedestrian survivability of 30 vs 50km/h, but rather the method used to determine which roads are in scope.

If it was down to the survivability alone, there could be reason to have 5km/h limits so that no one is every killed in a person vs car collision.

There obviously needs to be a balance and a risk based approach taken on a per road / area basis. There's no point reducing the speeds on roads where the risk is ultra low, otherwise you simply reduce efficiency of the transport system unnecessarily and reduce the quality of living for those now having to spend longer in traffic or wait longer for goods to arrive.

From comments, it appears some of the roads that have ended up in scope, should be descoped or the logical reasons for their inclusions made known.

jlittle

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#2896474 4-Apr-2022 01:10

Batman:
well statistically half the people are above average and half are below average

That depends how you rate drivers, it's mathematically not necessary. Imagine you gave 100 drivers a test, and 90 of them score 90 out of a 100, and 10 score 10 out of 100. The average score is 82, and 90% are above that.

More generally all you need is a few appallingly bad drivers dragging the average down, for a large majority to be above the average. For example, if you rate drivers in some way by how many fatalities they have caused, most drivers haven't killed anyone and so would be above average. That might sound very hypothetical but people may be thinking like that if you ask them to rate themselves.

blackjack17

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#2896489 4-Apr-2022 07:00

RUKI: In response to those saying - "the trip will only be 1 minute longer." Seriously?
Math is not you best friend, then.
Assume you drive 15000km p.a. and 9000kms of that are urban driving on those 1600 roads with a speed limit 30kmh in Auckland.
Using round numbers just to train your brain without using calculator.
So, 9000/30 = 300 hours. If the speed was 50, it is 180 hours.
So, you just lost 120 hours p.a. of your coding @$100/hour. Well, you just lost $12.000 p.a. Civil contractor earns more, by the way.
How many millions in lost productivity?
Of course life is priceless (heaps of hypocrite would say straight away), then stop selling cigarettes...

You are being disingenuous.

They are only talking about reducing the speed limit on 10% of the roads and not all of these to 30km/hr, none of these being arterials.

On non-arterials you are not travelling at 50km/hr for extended periods. Most of the time you are speeding up or slowing down. Most of these changes are occurring to small side streets.

Here is a full list of the road changes. https://at.govt.nz/about-us/have-your-say/proposed-speed-limit-changes-phase-three/full-list-of-proposed-speed-limit-changes/

Here are a couple of examples of dropping from 50 to 30km/hr

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blackjack17

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#2896493 4-Apr-2022 07:14

insane: I think the biggest gripe people are having with this speed change is not about the pedestrian survivability of 30 vs 50km/h, but rather the method used to determine which roads are in scope.

If it was down to the survivability alone, there could be reason to have 5km/h limits so that no one is every killed in a person vs car collision.

There obviously needs to be a balance and a risk based approach taken on a per road / area basis. There's no point reducing the speeds on roads where the risk is ultra low, otherwise you simply reduce efficiency of the transport system unnecessarily and reduce the quality of living for those now having to spend longer in traffic or wait longer for goods to arrive.

From comments, it appears some of the roads that have ended up in scope, should be descoped or the logical reasons for their inclusions made known.

Found the map of the proposed changes.

https://haveyoursay.at.govt.nz/speed-limit-changes-around-auckland-phase-three/maps/map-your-feedback

The light blue is where they are planning on reducing it to 30km/hr. I would say this is way to small in scope.

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openmedia

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#2896507 4-Apr-2022 08:00

Our road, and nearby connecting roads, have all been tagged for 30kph. The reasoning doesn't make sense as we're not the arterial people would typically use for school trips etc. Also the problem with boy racers and late night donuts isn't going to be impacted as they'll all carry on regardless.

I'm struggling keeping the car @ 50kph trying to get up the hilly parts of the neighbourhood, 30 will simply be ridiculous.

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insane

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#2896526 4-Apr-2022 08:56

blackjack17:

Found the map of the proposed changes.

https://haveyoursay.at.govt.nz/speed-limit-changes-around-auckland-phase-three/maps/map-your-feedback

The light blue is where they are planning on reducing it to 30km/hr. I would say this is way to small in scope.

Your assertion rather proves my point. There needs to be a framework around what constitutes a 10,30,40,50,60,80,100 etc.

e.g
Width of road
Visibility
Length of road
Availability of foot paths
Availability of crossings
Historical incidents
Surface quality
Majority voice of local residents

Without any frame of reference it's just opinions against opinions.

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