EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2842132 2-Jan-2022 21:53

Two sayings come to mind.

"Penny wise pound foolish", and sums up some of those described above.

The other is, "Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves."

The secret is getting balance right.

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Batman

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#2842238 3-Jan-2022 07:41

In 2022 I have 2 questions

What new motor and battery technology will be developed (though unlikely delivered)

When are the cheap Chinese cars getting released around the world

kingdragonfly

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#2842303 3-Jan-2022 08:42

Summary: don't hold your breath about less expensive Chinese cars in New Zealand.

The bad news for a manufacturer the less expensive the car, the more the risk of losing money.

In 2014, the Fiat CEO said “I hope you don’t buy [a Fiat EV] because every time I sell one it costs me $14,000,” he said to the audience at the Brookings Institution about the 500e. “I’m honest enough to tell you that.”

The good news is the price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades.

Between 2014 and 2021, the price dropped to over 4 times cheaper: from $588 to $132 / KWH.

But back to the question of cheaper Chinese EV in New Zealand, The MG ZS Ev is available now.

Right-hand drives cars are 35% of the world.

However I read that only 6% of cars are RHD, which makes sense, since regions like the Caribbean, Africa and India are RHD.

I'm waiting on BYD to be released to Australia, which hopefully means New Zealand is close behind.

The Australian dealer has had several false starts, and a little over hyped. Hopefully their promise for 2022 comes true.

RUKI

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#2842374 3-Jan-2022 10:12

I do not know why people in NZ have hopes for PRC made cars. I observed on so many occasions that almost anything they design and made themselves do not have quality. Not high, not good, just no quality at all. People argue immediately about smartphones, laptops ant othe computer stuff being made in there, forgetting that good and reliable ones are not Chinese brands.
Also lifespan of phones and alike is 1-3 years, whereas people expect cars to serve way longer.
Good luck to those buying PRC designed EVs. I would never ever buy one, regardless of the price.

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jonathan18

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#2842386 3-Jan-2022 10:33

That's a pretty wide and blanket statement.

It wasn't that long ago that many said the same about South Korean cars... Give it time and I'm sure some Chinese cars will be well regarded.

As an example, MG have come a long way in only a few years - yeah, the ZS EV isn't perfect but is pretty decent, comes with a good warranty, and is well priced. If they made a larger model I'd certainly consider it.

gzt

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#2842388 3-Jan-2022 10:34

I'm old enough to remember when people said almost exactly the same thing about Japan and Japan made cars. These days cars from Japan are regarded as the best in design and manufacture with no equal. The same will happen for export personal transport made in PRC as the local market matures.

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Obraik

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#2842398 3-Jan-2022 11:20

Batman: In 2022 I have 2 questions

What new motor and battery technology will be developed (though unlikely delivered)

I'm not sure we'll see much new development when it comes to the motors, other than more vehicles with a motor in each wheel.

We should see Tesla starting to produce vehicles with the new 4680 cells this year. Still unsure which vehicle they will first appear in out of the Model Y, Cybertruck or Semi.

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Technofreak

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#2842407 3-Jan-2022 11:47

Obraik:

Batman: In 2022 I have 2 questions

What new motor and battery technology will be developed (though unlikely delivered)

I'm not sure we'll see much new development when it comes to the motors, other than more vehicles with a motor in each wheel.

While the concept of distributed power or a motor at each wheel sounds good, unsprung weight is the enemy to that idea. Car manufacturers go to great lengths to reduce unsprung weight to improve the ride and handling of their cars.

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Obraik

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#2842415 3-Jan-2022 12:05

It's not a concept anymore, Rivian is already producing their ute with a motor at each wheel. If the Cybertruck launches this year, it will also have the same config.

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#2842417 3-Jan-2022 12:07

RUKI: I do not know why people in NZ have hopes for PRC made cars. I observed on so many occasions that almost anything they design and made themselves do not have quality. Not high, not good, just no quality at all. People argue immediately about smartphones, laptops ant othe computer stuff being made in there, forgetting that good and reliable ones are not Chinese brands.
Also lifespan of phones and alike is 1-3 years, whereas people expect cars to serve way longer.
Good luck to those buying PRC designed EVs. I would never ever buy one, regardless of the price.

I only need it as a shopping cart as an upgrade to my end of life Nissan Leaf. So I'm pretty sure it'll be fine, and also pretty sure it'll be better than my Nissan Leaf.

I think you could be surprised by their copy-ing abilities.

It all comes to 2 words - quality control. I have no doubt they have the technology (5 star crash tests apparently) - how they obtained them I find it suspicious ... but maybe they did legit hire German marquee engineers as they claim to have.

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#2842418 3-Jan-2022 12:10

gzt: I'm old enough to remember when people said almost exactly the same thing about Japan and Japan made cars. These days cars from Japan are regarded as the best in design and manufacture with no equal. The same will happen for export personal transport made in PRC as the local market matures.

Unfortunately Japan is so slow into BEVs the Chinese have a massive head start.

If my hunch proves right, Japan car market will be taken over by the Chinese.

The Chinese also control most if not all the raw material for this stuff don't forget.

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RobDickinson

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#2842421 3-Jan-2022 12:20

Obraik: It's not a concept anymore, Rivian is already producing their ute with a motor at each wheel. If the Cybertruck launches this year, it will also have the same config.

Neither Rivian or Tesla are putting motors at each wheel but rather inboard with half shafts so no unsprung mass problems (if thats not clear.)

MarkH67

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#2842428 3-Jan-2022 12:32

RUKI: I do not know why people in NZ have hopes for PRC made cars. I observed on so many occasions that almost anything they design and made themselves do not have quality. Not high, not good, just no quality at all. People argue immediately about smartphones, laptops ant othe computer stuff being made in there, forgetting that good and reliable ones are not Chinese brands.
Also lifespan of phones and alike is 1-3 years, whereas people expect cars to serve way longer.

Over 2 years ago I bought a Samsung phone, before that I was using a Xiaomi MiMax2, bought over 4 years ago. That Xiaomi phone still works fine and I've given it to my mother, she's using it every day, I expect it to last for a while longer and would not be surprised if it was still working well when it is 6 years old. I have also bought many other Xiaomi products that have proven to be good quality and very reliable, it would take me a while to think of all the Xiaomi stuff I own (I like the brand and buy them in preference to other brands).

My current navigation phone that I use on the motorcycle is a Ulefone Power Armor 13 - a good quality phone that works very well, but really big & heavy due to the 13,200mAh battery.

There are other Chinese brand phones that I've seen good reviews of, like Huawei, Oppo & OnePlus.

Obviously there are many products made to be sold at a very cheap price, you could hardly expect something designed and built at a very low price to be of good quality. But there are Chinese made products that are not cheap at all, made to be high quality and unfortunately you have to pay for that quality. I don't know how high quality the Chinese brands of cars are, but I wouldn't dismiss the idea of buying one without checking reviews. Even if I didn't personally buy a Chinese brand car, the more electric cars on the market in NZ the better the prices would be for all electric cars, so I think these cars hitting the market here will be a good thing.

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#2842432 3-Jan-2022 12:41

Batman:

I only need it as a shopping cart as an upgrade to my end of life Nissan Leaf. So I'm pretty sure it'll be fine, and also pretty sure it'll be better than my Nissan Leaf.

We originally planned to sell our Leaf once the M3 arrives due to battery degradation. But the EVs Enhanced 16 Blade LFP pack (combined with my need to soon have a safe and cost effective car for elder spawn) has had me decide to hold off at least until they announce price and timing. I have registered my interest.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2842449 3-Jan-2022 13:47

The perception of low quality of Chinese products is largely due to the Western world's bargain basement shopping mentality. The Chinese can make product lines to suit any budget and most Western shoppers want 'cheap' so that's what is supplied. If the supply price requested is sufficient the Chinese are more than capable of manufacturing and supplying products that are equal in quality to the world's best. Unfortunately the likes of Walmart, The Warehouse and Bunnings compete on price so 'everyone gets a bargain', which serves to fill our landfills with broken crap.

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