EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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Linuxluver

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#197896 16-Jun-2016 22:14

There seems to be a lot of momentum building up around EVs (electric vehicles) both globally and in NZ. I'm thinking this topic could support some true geekery over time around EVs.

So...news item: Renault had announced they were going to launch the "Zoe" EV car and the "Kangoo" EV van in NZ this year. There is a Renault dealership at the end of my street and I was looking in their newly renovated and expanded premises each time I passed for some sign of the Zoe or Kangoo.

Nothing.

So this week - in my acquisition obsession phase after buying a Nissan LEAF - I checked out the Renault web site and tried to request a brochure. But none of the EVs were in the list.

Hmm.

But they did have a separate section for electric vehicles and it included a form to request information about them. OK...done.....but te sense is they are reluctant to promote them. I soon found out why.

Today, Renault phoned me and asked when I thought i might be interested in a test drive. I explained I have an Nissan Leaf, but I'm always looking out for other / better options. Six months from now would be fine.

He was a bit relieved to hear it as their entire allocation of EVs has been bought by Air New Zealand. Every last one.They won't get more for at least 6 months.

That explains why everything went quiet around the Zoe after the initial press coverage in April.

The EV space is heating up.

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#1575449 17-Jun-2016 07:14

Fully Charged is an excellent car show mainly on EV and tech related to it. The man from red dwarf hosts it. His name escapes me.

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DjShadow

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#1575458 17-Jun-2016 07:40

Its also great to see more and more charging stations pop up, Hutt City Council have road signs now showing the way to a charging station

Batman

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#1575464 17-Jun-2016 08:18

Air New Zealand ... Hmm... Airport buggies?

Linuxluver

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#1575475 17-Jun-2016 08:31

joker97: Air New Zealand ... Hmm... Airport buggies?

The Renault Zoe isn't an airport buggie.

:-)

You're thinking of NZ Post? They are importing 550 EV Mail delivery buggies.

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wellygary

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#1575509 17-Jun-2016 09:37

Linuxluver:

He was a bit relieved to hear it as their entire allocation of EVs has been bought by Air New Zealand. Every last one.They won't get more for at least 6 months.

That explains why everything went quiet around the Zoe after the initial press coverage in April.

Interesting, becuase Air NZ never mentioned the Zoe in its EV announcement, they said

"The airline has confirmed orders for 36 fully electric BMW i3 vehicles for its sales force.......
The airline is also purchasing 12 Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-in Hybrids for longer range trips, and 28 Renault Kangoo Maxi ZE 100% electric vans for use at airports"

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#1575529 17-Jun-2016 09:56

Wow they single handledly buy up all the EVs, i think they want to portray a very green image!

trig42

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#1575536 17-Jun-2016 10:10

joker97: Wow they single handledly buy up all the EVs, i think they want to portray a very green image!

Good on them, though they are probably the biggest user of Fossil Fuels in NZ wouldn't you think?

wellygary

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#1575540 17-Jun-2016 10:25

trig42:

joker97: Wow they single handledly buy up all the EVs, i think they want to portray a very green image!

Good on them, though they are probably the biggest user of Fossil Fuels in NZ wouldn't you think?

Yeah, but their car fleet is small beer compared to their aviation use,

They didn't even bother to fully detail their total ground fleet emissions in this report, becuase as compared to the annual 3 million tonnes/Co2 from aviation, 100 or so cars would only equal around 500 tonnes/year, which is a rounding error....

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/assets/PDFs/img-824223243-0001.pdf

RUKI

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#1575665 17-Jun-2016 11:39

Linuxluver:

There seems to be a lot of momentum building up around EVs (electric vehicles) both globally and in NZ. I'm thinking this topic could support some true geekery over time around EVs.

Momentum it is…

Only few years ago there were less than 600 Hybrid Cars (mainly Toyota with few Hondas) registered in New Zealand. Only a few DIY EV conversions - one cost the owner 25K NZD to convert!.

Few years later we have here over 15.000 Hybrid Cars (about 5.000 new and 10.000 JDM imports) and about 1000 EVs (~600 Leafs).

Entrepreneurs are seeing business opportunities - competitive charging networks are being built, software developers are working on apps, car dealers are selling all sorts of electric products (not necessarily compliant to NZ standards), journalist and some other public figures are gaining publicity by supporting going "zero emission" idea (although without providing any feasible incentives we could feel in our pockets).

Taxi drivers (frugal and practical hard working people) are not interested in EV at this stage - e.g. Coop Taxi introduced the rule recently (from what I was told) - "it has to be Toyota Camry Hybrid and not older than 5 years old".

In 5 year time you will see even more of Toyota Prius, Camry and new Corolla Hybrid and other Hybrids (e.g. people movers) on the road.

If the trend remains and no feasible incentives for the NZ EV owners being introduced - Hybrids will hugely outnumber EVs in the next 5 years IMO.

EV manufacturers will try to compete by increasing the range and dropping their unaffordable prices - but still targeting reach and business - like Tesla does by reducing price from 120K USD to 100K USD.

I like EVs. I tried Leaf. It feels good. I was offered by friendly car dealers to bring me Leaf very cheap (way below market price). Instead I’ve recently got Prius C. Why?

My Prius C consumes only 4,5L/100 kms. HV Battery has only 20 modules. It means I can use as a donor any hybrid battery - Lexus GS 450 (40 of the same modules), Camry (same 34 modules), Prius V (same 28 modules), Prius (same 28 modules) etc - majority of Toyota Hybrid batteries use the same prismatic NP2 modules made by EV energy (Panasonic-Toyota venture).

Swapping battery in Prius takes ~20 minutes; Rebuilding it using my HV Battery Analysers, Chargers and E-Loads is now a breeze.. You can lift and handle Prius Hybrid Battery alone as it is not that heavy. Swap does not require a car lift and can be done anywhere - even on the sandy beach...

Leaf was on my shopping list. I was thinking of buying it for its battery charger to use it in the Battery Testing Complex. But the 3.6 or 6 KW charger in 2013 -2015 model can’t be used stand-alone and is quite bulky. I found better alternatives for that.

From practicality of the battery maintenance - it is not cheap or easy for the end user to fix EV Battery. Take Leaf as example: the battery is over 240 kg, it is under the car - the swap is hard and labour intense. Battery packs from different model years are incompatible (e.g. 2011 vs 2013), pack swap is not straightforward and requires computer reprogramming - you would need very expensive dealership scanner to do that.

That all comes with a cost.

Low number of Leafs in NZ and difficulties in importing second hand batteries currently makes purchase of the swap battery non-economical.

Hybrid batteries different story - I am buying batteries from hybrid cars cheap. They are available from wrecks for reasonable prices as they have no means to test them (some are bad some are good). Even new pack from Toyota does not seem to be too expensive - $4000. Rebuilt Battery Cost less.

With EV - you are looking at much bigger price tag.

20k ODO Leafs already have batteries with reduced capacity - translating in reduced range (60Kms is not so cool).

EVs slowly but surely will make their way into NZ, initially purchased by companies, also by people who normally love toys and do not have to count money (i.e. do not have to be frugal) or by those who can't count money well.

There are people out there who will stretch themselves and buy EV in anticipation of future savings. I will remind those that in the past few years they have probably dumped few gadgets - e.g. mobile phones, MP3 players etc where changing battery for a new one was not economical.

Buy EV and enjoy it while the battery is still running.. It is a great toy to play with as long as you can change your batteries..

robjg63

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#1575670 17-Jun-2016 11:47

The issue is probably that Renault did not expect to sell a large number of EVs in NZ - so probably only got allocated a small number - say 1 a week - that would only be an allocation of 52 a year.

Wouldnt take a lot for a larger company to by 10s of vehicles all at once and use up the allocation.

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wellygary

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#1575673 17-Jun-2016 11:57

RUKI:

Few years later we have here over 15.000 Hybrid Cars (about 5.000 new and 10.000 JDM imports) and about 1000 EVs (~600 Leafs).

Leafs (~600) and Outlanders (~400) make up 75% of the NZ EV fleet,

its interesting to note that in the most recent NZ MoT EV report they note that EV take up Japan is pretty much flat, and that importers are more and more looking to the UK, ( where registrations doubled over the last year), -

maxeon

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#1575675 17-Jun-2016 12:02

I have used Toyota Prius 2nd Gen for 2 years and 3rd Gen for 3 years before recently shifting to Lexus Hyrbid RX 450h SUV now.

They are amazing cars and best of all they are very reliable.

We have never had a problem with any of the models (except the odd tyre balancing problem).

My family in various parts of the country have around 6 cars in total - various versions of Toyota / Lexus Hybrids and once you get used to their eco model savings on fuel (half the equavalent sized petrol cars) you then find them very addictive and reliable at the same time.

Lexus is more of a Luxury version of Toyota, they are the same engines below but more gadgets and premium materials. They cost a lot too compared to USA prices.

I want to get a FULL EV at some stage but currently only limited range is available.

I do around 100 to 150kms a day and the current FULL EV models are barely in that range.

Tesla is something I am waiting for to launch in NZ.

wellygary

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#1575693 17-Jun-2016 12:26

maxeon:

Tesla is something I am waiting for to launch in NZ.

Although the jungle drums on the model 3 RHD just keep on getting worse, looks like 2018 at the earliest, and personally I think that will be late '18 possible '19

Linuxluver

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#1575932 17-Jun-2016 17:22

wellygary:

trig42:

joker97: Wow they single handledly buy up all the EVs, i think they want to portray a very green image!

Good on them, though they are probably the biggest user of Fossil Fuels in NZ wouldn't you think?

Yeah, but their car fleet is small beer compared to their aviation use,

They didn't even bother to fully detail their total ground fleet emissions in this report, becuase as compared to the annual 3 million tonnes/Co2 from aviation, 100 or so cars would only equal around 500 tonnes/year, which is a rounding error....

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/assets/PDFs/img-824223243-0001.pdf

It would be interesting to see the aviation CO2 broken down per capita / traveler. Just as bus uses more fuel than a car in absolute terms, per passenger the ratio may well be less. A million people flying on 6,000 flights (150 person per flight?) may use less CO2 than a million cars.

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Linuxluver

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#1575937 17-Jun-2016 17:28

RUKI:

Buy EV and enjoy it while the battery is still running.. It is a great toy to play with as long as you can change your batteries..

I suspect absolutely you're correct.....today. Five years from now? Things will change. I'm aiming for 2021, but wanted to get started today. The battery should last that long. Fingers crossed. Either way, the $29,995 I paid for my LEAF is good value considering it costs me less than $2 / day to run it (as far as fuel is concerned) and it is zero emissions....which is something that is important to me with respect to climate change.

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