Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 413 | 414 | 415 | 416 | 417 | 418 | 419 | 420 | 421 | 422 | 423 | ... | 771
frankv
5705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3666

Lifetime subscriber

  #2842459 3-Jan-2022 14:37
Send private message quote this post

RUKI: I do not know why people in NZ have hopes for PRC made cars. I observed on so many occasions that almost anything they design and made themselves do not have quality. Not high, not good, just no quality at all.

Good luck to those buying PRC designed EVs. I would never ever buy one, regardless of the price.

 

This was the mantra about Japanese motorcycles & electronics in the 50s and 60s and even early 70s. And also "they can't design, they only copy Western designs". Their British & American competitors were crushed until they learned to make motorbikes as good as the Japanese. Likewise cars a decade or so later.

 

Likewise Korean cars and electronics another decade or two later.

 

Likewise Czech cars until 10 years ago.

 

Likewise Malaysian cars a few years ago.

 

Car manufacturing is no longer about skilled workers, it's about a robotic factory that can be set up anywhere in the world that's convenient. You can then hire in the design talent, or build up your own expertise.

 

 




SaltyNZ
8869 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9554

Trusted
2degrees
Lifetime subscriber

  #2842489 3-Jan-2022 16:09
Send private message quote this post

And Western companies have spent the last 30 years training up Chinese expertise by outsourcing their entire supply chains to China. It really should go without saying that as long as we aren't talking about $2-shop crap then yes, Chinese companies are completely capable of designing and manufacturing high quality products.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


RUKI
1405 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 422


  #2842519 3-Jan-2022 17:05
Send private message quote this post

frankv: ......

Car manufacturing is no longer about skilled workers, it's about a robotic factory that can be set up anywhere in the world that's convenient. You can then hire in the design talent, or build up your own expertise.


 



Disagree.

The key is in worker's mentality, working culture and state of mind as well as attitude, most of which is influenced by Country' overall System. Some of the same people being put in different environment could change dramatically, some never do. But as long as they stay - they never change. Overseas management and team leads or hired designers won't make a huge difference.
The "overseas" expertise will shortly melt into "old same old" after expats are gone...

P.S. NZ social media has thousands of posts about issues Nissan Leaf has and almost zero posts about Toyota / Lexus Hybrid issues.
Numerous issues with Korean EVs.
GZ and FB will have even more posts about EVs from PRC if and when they start landing in NZ.
That is when you prove me wrong.





Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 




RobDickinson
1526 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 513


  #2842524 3-Jan-2022 17:22
Send private message quote this post

BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc all make vehicles in China in joint ventures with Chinese companies, they and some of the Chinese companies make great cars.

 

 

 

Not our fault your prejudices are showing.


jonathan18
7415 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2850

ID Verified
Trusted

  #2842536 3-Jan-2022 18:08
Send private message quote this post

RUKI:

 

The key is in worker's mentality, working culture and state of mind as well as attitude, most of which is influenced by Country' overall System. [snip]

 

P.S. NZ social media has thousands of posts about issues [the JAPANESE] Nissan Leaf has and almost zero posts about [the JAPANESE] Toyota / Lexus Hybrid issues.

 

Huh?! 

 

 


afe66
3181 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1678

Lifetime subscriber

  #2842537 3-Jan-2022 18:13
Send private message quote this post

Interesting documentary about Chinese workers vrs American on Netflix about how Chinese company takes over closed American factory.

The overwhelming work ethic of the chinese vrs American was interesting.

https://www.netflix.com/us/title/81090071?s=a&trkid=13747225&t=cp&vlang=en&clip=81135485

Unless you have an interest you may not be aware of the powerful Chinese government incentive to be an EV powerhouse. While the American government spends billions subsidising the fossil fuel industry the Chinese is looking at next generation of transport

I've been a patron of Fullycharged an EV YouTube channel who also have a Chinese based correspondent. The numbers of EV in China interms of raw numbers and types of EV is fascinating. I think one city had thousands of EV buses more than Europe and America combined.

The more EVs they build the cheaper and better they will be.

 
 
 

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).
Batman
Mad Scientist
30014 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6217

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2842543 3-Jan-2022 18:21
Send private message quote this post

RUKI:

P.S. NZ social media has thousands of posts about issues Nissan Leaf has and almost zero posts about Toyota / Lexus Hybrid issues.
Numerous issues with Korean EVs.
GZ and FB will have even more posts about EVs from PRC if and when they start landing in NZ.
That is when you prove me wrong.

 

Umm ... I would have thought global social media Tesla issues outnumber them all!

 

It's a function of number I think.

 

More of something, more problems.

 

Also I don't read social media complaining about Maserati issues ... because Maserati owners don't complain on social media?

 

I'm sure PRC EVs will have issues. But I am after cheap!


ezbee
2657 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3099


  #2842558 3-Jan-2022 20:15
Send private message quote this post

Korean EV problems may have been the LG cells that took down the very workable Chevy Bolt ?
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/cells-gm-hyundai-ev-battery-fires-linked-several-lg-plants-2021-08-27/

 

Pity Chevy Bolt owners seemed to really like it until they were told not to park them near the house.

 

Whats with Lucky Goldstar ? 

 

Yeh NZ market can be a place to dump product, so something to be 'very' wary of.
When I bought my first 'genuine' Japanese assembled car, just  a cheap runabout.
The salesperson might have wondered why I looked at the panel fit, paint so long.
Even the exposed welds in the engine bay, paint laid on nicely to that even weld pattern.

 

Guess what, I did not have to meticulously wash it to avoid rust that plagued the NZ product.
Hell for years we were told scab rust was owners fault for not washing garaging etc.

 

Sorry I'm going on here traumatized by past experience. Time for a drink...


kingdragonfly
11992 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12887

Subscriber

  #2842571 3-Jan-2022 21:16
Send private message quote this post

Spoiler: Tesla was not ripping off the Fin who blew up his Tesla. (Note the Fin did remove the batteries before dynamiting the car)

Gruber Motor Company

Electric Vehicles have disproportionate component costs, with the main battery pack leading the charge.

In Fossil Fuel Burner cars, parts costs are spread across a larger number of key components, lessening the impact of a major repair.

In this video, we examine cost of the main battery pack, which for an out of warranty customer weighs in at around $22K, often approaching the value of the vehicle.

A Finnish Tesla Model S customer decided to send Tesla a message, by blowing up his car, rather than spend $22K to get it repaired.

We explore the reasons for this disproportionate high cost for one component, and weigh in on whether Tesla's pricing is fair.


gzt

gzt
18689 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7827

Lifetime subscriber

  #2842572 3-Jan-2022 21:33
Send private message quote this post

Wonder how much be got for the second hand battery.

RUKI
1405 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 422


  #2842622 4-Jan-2022 00:07
Send private message quote this post

Batman: ....

I'm sure PRC EVs will have issues. But I am after cheap!


I've heard the phrase over 50 years ago and used it as a guideline ever since:
"We are not that rich to buy cheap stuff"...
The other saying (translated from my native language) is:
"frugal pays twice".
but one may look at cheap EVs from completely different point of view:
buy brand new cheap EV (must have 5 year manufacture warranty on everything including battery) for your business, depreciate it to zero in 5 years. If it is still running after - consider it as a bonus. With that approach you can change cars every 5 years to a brand new ones. If they would build them to last that long, and sell in NZ with 5 year warranty - you are winning.






Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 


 
 
 

Want to support Geekzone and browse the site without the ads? Subscribe to Geekzone now (monthly, annual and lifetime options).
kingdragonfly
11992 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12887

Subscriber

  #2842893 4-Jan-2022 09:22
Send private message quote this post

@ruki,

In the good news, buying something new, and holding onto it is a smart move. In the first year, your car may lose 20% to 30% of its value. In the next four years, it could lose around 15% per year. However, on average, cars are worth about 50% to 60% of their original sales price after 5 years.

However "frugal pays twice" may fall into the "perceived value" trap, which is something marketers love.

I remember a story a friend told me. He was selling cheap diamond jewelry, with badly flawed diamonds.

As an aside, diamonds are not particularly rare. In fact, compared to other gemstones, they're the most common precious stone found.

Though the price was cheap, it wasn't selling well. He decided to go on vacation. Wanting to get rid of the jewelry, he told his assistant to change the price by 50%.

The assistant misunderstood the instruction, and increased the price by 50%. Suddenly the un-saleable jewelry sold out. His customer perceived the diamonds as better quality, because it was more expensive.

In sales they call this "perceived value." More expensive doesn't equal better, or rarer.

Lastly consider the quality of branded "Viagra" versus generic "Sildenafil". Pfizer makes both, coming off the exact same factory line, but charges a premium for "Viagra".

Same for pain-killers Advil "Period Pain" and generic no-name Ibuprofen. They are exactly the same drug.

Anyhow here's an article: The Psychology of Customer Perceived Value


RUKI
1405 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 422


  #2842967 4-Jan-2022 10:10
Send private message quote this post

@kingdragonfly
I have been to the diamond factory, saw the process, understand different grades of quality and I do not buy diamonds. Zero value in them for me.
Sorry,,cannot comment on Phizer' products as I have no experience with those. I am not that old :)


kingdragonfly
11992 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12887

Subscriber

  #2843136 4-Jan-2022 17:25
Send private message quote this post

Compares Tesla with Chevy Bolt and PorscheTaycan.

Note that Gruber Motors has a conflict of interest, because it only repairs Tesla.


Why are EV's Catching on Fire | Gruber Motors


SaltyNZ
8869 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9554

Trusted
2degrees
Lifetime subscriber

  #2843137 4-Jan-2022 17:27
Send private message quote this post

CNN has no particular axe to grind, though.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


1 | ... | 413 | 414 | 415 | 416 | 417 | 418 | 419 | 420 | 421 | 422 | 423 | ... | 771
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic








Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.