EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2859876 1-Feb-2022 12:12

jonathan18:

It'll be interesting to see what Kia NZ prices the "EV6 Air Rear-Wheel-Drive Long Range" at - this is the second-from-bottom model in NZ and seems to be similar/same spec as the entry-level Aus; that'll be enough range for me, and if the boot is of decent enough size and the car is more interesting to drive than the Ioniq 5 it may well be a potential alternative to the Y, which shows no signs of getting here...

Ars Technica tested it and were pretty positive although they felt that regen during a turn was a bit more stable in the AWD version compared to the RWD.

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Dingbatt

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#2859878 1-Feb-2022 12:13

RunningMan:

Tesla opens up Superchargers to non Tesla vehicles in Norway

I’ve got to wonder if this move by Tesla is twofold.

Firstly the huge amount of Supercharger ‘miles’ that people have squirrelled away provides no cashflow for Tesla. I think it’s no coincidence that they stopped the referral scheme here last year. So opening the chargers up to other makes, reportedly at a higher tariff, produces revenue.

Secondly, the EU abhors a monopoly, so this move (trialled initially in the Netherlands) may head off any moves in that direction.

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RobDickinson

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#2859897 1-Feb-2022 13:03

SC networn isnt a monopoly though, its a private charging network, and there are many others in Europe, US and here.

As for the referral program, the free SC isnt that much but consider most of the years supply of tesla is already sold out I doubt they need to provide it as an incentive.

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#2859981 1-Feb-2022 13:51

RobDickinson:

SC networn isnt a monopoly though, its a private charging network, and there are many others in Europe, US and here.

As for the referral program, the free SC isnt that much but consider most of the years supply of tesla is already sold out I doubt they need to provide it as an incentive.

Yes, but idle Superchargers are a capital expense with no revenue being produced. So why not open it up to all-comers? Particularly if they charge more per kWh. From what I can tell a fast charge at a SC is about 6x as expensive as charging at home in NZ, so it would be interesting to know what rate Tesla buys the electricity at (commercial-in-confidence I know, so unlikely to ever find out).

The sticky bit comes when Tesla owners have to start queuing behind Kias, Hyundais, Polestars, etc for ‘their’ chargers. The ones that were included in the deal, certainly in the case of the Model X and S.

As for the EU. Private charging networks in general require only that you join, pay and obey their rules. They may view excluding ‘other’ EVs from chargers as anti competitive behaviour. Wouldn’t be the first time Brussels just made it up to teach someone (the richest man in the world) a lesson.

The Supercharger network in NZ is so sparse at the moment I don’t believe it is a selling point. As you say, with the forward orders it doesn’t need to be.

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Linuxluver

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#2859985 1-Feb-2022 13:58

RobDickinson:
SC networn isnt a monopoly though, its a private charging network, and there are many others in Europe, US and here.

As for the referral program, the free SC isnt that much but consider most of the years supply of tesla is already sold out I doubt they need to provide it as an incentive.

What other charging network only allowed cars from one car make to use them?

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RobDickinson

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#2860036 1-Feb-2022 14:05

What other charge networks are built by the manufacturer (rivian is the only one that springs to mind)?

Its absolutely not a monopoly, and its perfectly fine to have a private charging network.

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#2860226 1-Feb-2022 20:22

Dingbatt:
RobDickinson:

SC networn isnt a monopoly though, its a private charging network, and there are many others in Europe, US and here.

As for the referral program, the free SC isnt that much but consider most of the years supply of tesla is already sold out I doubt they need to provide it as an incentive.

Yes, but idle Superchargers are a capital expense with no revenue being produced. So why not open it up to all-comers? Particularly if they charge more per kWh. From what I can tell a fast charge at a SC is about 6x as expensive as charging at home in NZ, so it would be interesting to know what rate Tesla buys the electricity at (commercial-in-confidence I know, so unlikely to ever find out).

The sticky bit comes when Tesla owners have to start queuing behind Kias, Hyundais, Polestars, etc for ‘their’ chargers. The ones that were included in the deal, certainly in the case of the Model X and S.

As for the EU. Private charging networks in general require only that you join, pay and obey their rules. They may view excluding ‘other’ EVs from chargers as anti competitive behaviour. Wouldn’t be the first time Brussels just made it up to teach someone (the richest man in the world) a lesson.

The Supercharger network in NZ is so sparse at the moment I don’t believe it is a selling point. As you say, with the forward orders it doesn’t need to be.

If they were to open them up I would definitely expect them to add a way to book it out in advance only for Tesla's to maintain the priority service. Would be a handy feature to just tell the car you want to charge and once it sets a route it reserves the charger for you. Other car owners would have to turn up and try their luck. Not sure what they'd do if someone was mid charge when the Tesla owner turns up though.

Linuxluver

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#2860232 1-Feb-2022 20:46

RobDickinson:
What other charge networks are built by the manufacturer (rivian is the only one that springs to mind)?

Its absolutely not a monopoly, and its perfectly fine to have a private charging network.

You feel that way, clearly. But many people don't share that feeling. Public bodies providing space for charging will support infrastructure available to everyone. Tesla often doesn't qualify, whether in New Plymouth or Philadelphia or New York.

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RobDickinson

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#2860414 2-Feb-2022 07:39

New Plymouth are just a bunch of ute loving morons tho

I personally cant recall any NZ SC sites taking up public locations at the moment

RunningMan

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#2860418 2-Feb-2022 07:50

The Tesla charging network isn't really a monopoly as there are other companies offering charging networks. Without looking up charger numbers, are they bigger than Chargenet in NZ? I don't know. As @Linuxluver mentions though I think the more relevant question is whether having a single brand company converting public car park spaces to charging stalls is a good idea, particularly in areas where parking is at a premium (far less of an issue if it's plentiful). Don't get me wrong, I think converting some spaces to charging stalls is a good idea, but if they are publicly owned spaces then they should be available to all brands of EVs used by that public. Tesla's move to open up helps solve that problem as well as putting more customers in their own pocket.

RobDickinson

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#2860420 2-Feb-2022 07:56

No, chargenet have heaps more chargers.

Its like complaining anytime fitness is a monopoly because they require membership

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#2860451 2-Feb-2022 09:52

There are complications with Tesla opening up their chargers though. Not all car makers put their charging ports in the same place and while all Tesla's are in the rear of the passenger side, others like VW/Audi/Porsche put them up the front. This means that with the Superchargers that anticipate you reversing in to charge (which is all but one location here in NZ) those cars will end up using the cable from the wrong bay, effectively consuming two charging bays.

Most of Tesla's Superchargers in NZ are on private land, not public/council car parks. I believe only Taupo and Whangarei are in council parks. You can't really complain about a specific brand having dedicated charging bays in a private car park.

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Dingbatt

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#2860464 2-Feb-2022 10:33

Not having ever used a Supercharger (or even closely inspecting one) how long are the cables? Are they such that you need to reverse in? They must be long enough to reach to the left rear when the charger stall is behind the right rear, mustn’t they? Assuming one stall between two bays.

Because cars in general are designed for LHD markets, we always seem to end up with compromises. With the exception of something like the Taycan(?) which has a port on both sides (or the front for the MG ZS and Leaf), most EVs seem to have the port positioned so the driver gets out of the LH side of the vehicle and plugs it in on the LH side. In the former colonies (and Japan) we need to walk around the other side of the vehicle to achieve this. I’m assuming EVs have clever protections to stop you moving the vehicle with the charging cable attached?

Rob seems to have got bent out of shape when I called the Supercharger network a monopoly. Monopoly is the wrong descriptor. It may more accurately be called ‘anti-competitive’ if you don’t like it, or a ‘competitive advantage’ if you benefit from it.

My point was actually that the EU has a track record for going after anti-competitive behaviour (real or perceived). Just ask Apple, Google, et al. So by making moves to open up their charging network, even a little bit, they defuse that avenue.

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RobDickinson

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#2860469 2-Feb-2022 10:41

The cables are quite short.

The Taycan only has a type 2 on both sides not the CCS combo. Side positioned charge ports like the taycan/audi GT are stupid.

You realise the WHOLE POINT of the supercharger network was because there was no charging network, and no other company was willing to fund one?

SaltyNZ

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#2860471 2-Feb-2022 10:43

Dingbatt:

I’m assuming EVs have clever protections to stop you moving the vehicle with the charging cable attached?

The Leaf does; I'd be shocked (pun not intended) if any others didn't.

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