EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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482 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3074319 9-May-2023 18:41

https://www.techspot.com/news/98608-mercedes-wants-ev-buyers-get-used-paywalled-features.html

Your new electric car can be faster for as "little" as $60 per month. Mercedes wants EV buyers to get used to paywalled features.

This stuff need to be outlawed. Before it becomes entrenched. Especially if the car already comes with the features already installed. I bet the companies will try scream theft if you mod you own car to enable features without paying. Or try outlaw custom firmware installs for your own car for "safety reasons".

gzt

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#3074328 9-May-2023 19:00

Depends on the benefits. Mercedes does not have the right formula yet. Most people are happy paying more for an unlocked phone or happy to pay less upfront and a monthly contract. Everyone gets what they want. Mercedes so far, wants users to pay for standard features users expect to come with a premium car. Surprise, it's not popular.

alasta

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#3074340 9-May-2023 20:11

I'm a Chinese car skeptic, but even I would admit that MG4 looks pretty cool.

Here's a question for you experts - do fast public chargers cause more battery degradation than charging at home? I'm just wondering about the implications for people who don't have access to a charging facility at home.

RunningMan

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#3074342 9-May-2023 20:18

cruxis:

https://www.techspot.com/news/98608-mercedes-wants-ev-buyers-get-used-paywalled-features.html

Your new electric car can be faster for as "little" as $60 per month. Mercedes wants EV buyers to get used to paywalled features.

This stuff need to be outlawed. Before it becomes entrenched. Especially if the car already comes with the features already installed. I bet the companies will try scream theft if you mod you own car to enable features without paying. Or try outlaw custom firmware installs for your own car for "safety reasons".

It's already happening. BMW and Audi charge a subscription for indicators, and nobody pays for that ;-)

billgates

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#3074351 9-May-2023 20:59

alasta:

I'm a Chinese car skeptic, but even I would admit that MG4 looks pretty cool.

Here's a question for you experts - do fast public chargers cause more battery degradation than charging at home? I'm just wondering about the implications for people who don't have access to a charging facility at home.

Yes DC charging at public degrades battery faster than home AC charging. Even faster DC charging would degrade the battery even quicker so it’s not a pro as some reviewers make it sound like when some cars can do 250kW or 300kW DC charging.

Saying that battery technology specially the BMS has come a long way. Both LifePO4 and NMC batteries have there pros and cons so doesn’t matter as to what your EV car comes with.

MG4 and Atto3 tbh comes with a better packaged car than Tesla. Unlike ICE where engines really mattered, I would agree a Chinese ICE car wouldn’t be good as German, European, South Korean or American. EV’s, there is no quality advantage that one country has over another.

Do whatever you want to do man.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3074354 9-May-2023 21:15

In conversation with an electrician regarding upgrading our PV and possibly upgrading to a 3 phase EVSE over our current single phase charger potentially increasing charge ability from 7kW to 22kW he advised against it partly based on increased battery degradation even though still AC. Higher charge rates result in more battery heating being reason.

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richms

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#3074376 9-May-2023 23:13

22kW wont even be a 1/2 C charge rate so barely anything for the cells. Would rather have the faster chargeing that you can always turn back if you dont need it just to have it available when needed.

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RunningMan

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#3074389 10-May-2023 07:00

There's only a very small handful of cars that will take 22 kW AC anyway. Renault Zoe and BMW ix1 spring to mind. The battery isn't going to get super heated from AC charging as @richms says.

Batman

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#3074394 10-May-2023 07:28

richms:
22kW wont even be a 1/2 C charge rate so barely anything for the cells. Would rather have the faster chargeing that you can always turn back if you dont need it just to have it available when needed.

Above what kW charging would give battery damage?

Ie below what kW charging is happy for battery

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#3074410 10-May-2023 08:16

Batman:

Above what kW charging would give battery damage?

Ie below what kW charging is happy for battery

It's not directly related to kW, it's related to C, which in turn relates kW to battery size. I seem to remember reading somewhere that around 0.2C was the optimum rate to balance quick charging (because while you're charging you're stressing the battery by running it in reverse, so you want that time to be short) against slow charging (because higher current stresses the battery more, and generates more heat which must be dispersed).

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Obraik

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#3074425 10-May-2023 09:42

billgates:

alasta:

I'm a Chinese car skeptic, but even I would admit that MG4 looks pretty cool.

Here's a question for you experts - do fast public chargers cause more battery degradation than charging at home? I'm just wondering about the implications for people who don't have access to a charging facility at home.

Yes DC charging at public degrades battery faster than home AC charging. Even faster DC charging would degrade the battery even quicker so it’s not a pro as some reviewers make it sound like when some cars can do 250kW or 300kW DC charging.

Saying that battery technology specially the BMS has come a long way. Both LifePO4 and NMC batteries have there pros and cons so doesn’t matter as to what your EV car comes with.

I don't think that's really substantiated anymore. With modern EVs having thermal management of their packs to keep them at an ideal temp, even while DC charging, any extra stress on them is kept to a minimum. When people have looked at EVs used as Taxis and predominantly DC charged, their degradation wasn't beyond the margin of error when compared to those that had mostly been AC charged.

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DS248

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#3074435 10-May-2023 10:09

Worth a quick read; eg. no, the power grid has not collapsed under the weight of ev charging, and no mass unemployment of gas station workers

In Norway, the Electric Vehicle Future Has Already Arrived

And worth noting at the end: “We do see it as an opportunity,” Hakon Stiksrud, Circle K's head of global e-mobility, said of electric vehicles. “But if we are not capable of grasping those opportunities, it quickly becomes a threat.”

DS248

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#3074442 10-May-2023 10:38

One for those wanting a decent off road machine

Fisker Ocean Force E Off-Road SUV - US deliveries expected in the last quarter this year.

Scott3

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#3074451 10-May-2023 11:05

DS248:

One for those wanting a decent off road machine

Fisker Ocean Force E Off-Road SUV - US deliveries expected in the last quarter this year.

Amused that they are hyping "20-inch reinforced wheels" as an off road feature. There is a reason stuff like ranger raptor (also running 33 inch A/T tires) is fitted with 17" rims. Smaller Rims mean more tire sidewall, which is very desirable off road.

"The Force E package adds a titanium plate that protects the full length of the Ocean's underbody". That has got to be a seriously expensive option.

RunningMan

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#3074575 10-May-2023 15:27

Obraik: I don't think that's really substantiated anymore. With modern EVs having thermal management of their packs to keep them at an ideal temp, even while DC charging, any extra stress on them is kept to a minimum. When people have looked at EVs used as Taxis and predominantly DC charged, their degradation wasn't beyond the margin of error when compared to those that had mostly been AC charged.

The study reported here (dated April 2023) says the opposite. I can't see the study linked on Aviloo's website, but essentially it aligns with conventional wisdom that charging slower is better. Thermal management still varies between designs, with some still seeing temp differentials of 10-15 degrees across the pack when too hot or cold. This means that the average temp may be fine, but some cells will degrade a lot faster than others, and when you get dead cells the whole pack becomes problematic - ask anyone with a really worn out early gen Leaf.

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