EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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Mad Scientist
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#3100189 5-Jul-2023 13:44

Dingbatt:
Batman: That's just under 10c per km, how does that affect the running cost of EVs?

At the current DC fast charging rates, about the same cost as running a petrol car, using $12/100km (15.0kWh/100km @ 80c/kWh) + $7.60 RUC /100km.

I guess you could buy a PHEV or a self charging hybrid.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3100208 5-Jul-2023 13:55

Batman: That's just under 10c per km, how does that affect the running cost of EVs?

Using the energy consumption of our Polestar2 of ~5.5km/kWh it costs us 2c/km charged from our PV (based on loss of export tariff of 11c/kWh, 4.3c/km charged at our off peak Ecotricity supply rate of 23.7c/kWh or 14.5c/km if ChargeNet's public rate is applicable (which like for most EV owners is rare). If RUC of 7.6c/km are added 9.6c, 11.9c or 22.1c/km respectively , all GST inclusive.

By comparison an ICE with 7L/100km economy using petrol at $2.80/L costs 19.6c/km.

EV owners are generally aware of RUCs nearing for them but hybrid owners are oblivious to how it will affect them. The real "shock on the way" is for PHEV and probably hybrids in general as to make the system fair, and deny PHEV owners the ability to avoid RUCs by running solely on their batteries a method of charging them by distance travelled (as EVs will be) must be probable. This obviously presents another issue in preventing them being double taxed when they're running on petrol which is where the devil in the detail will lie as next April approaches.

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#3100212 5-Jul-2023 13:57

Batman:

I guess you could buy a PHEV or a self charging hybrid.

I’ll be interested to see where PHEVs will sit in this. Will they get double slammed with fuel excise and RUCs?

And I’m happy with my BEV at the moment, even with RUCs, because I didn’t buy it to save money (or the planet 😇)

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MarkH67

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#3100227 5-Jul-2023 14:36

One option for PHEVs would be to charge them the RUC and then they could claim back the road tax upon providing receipts for the petrol they bought. Currently there are owners of petrol powered Winnebago Vectras that do exactly that, due to the weight they have to pay RUC, but because they run on petrol there is road tax charged on the fuel and because they are paying road tax twice they can claim the petrol road tax back.

One diffictulty with this is that you can't easily verify the petrol from the receipts actually went into the PHEV in question. But until everyone pays a RUC and there is no road tax on petrol, what else can you do?

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#3100231 5-Jul-2023 14:43

Batman: And I wonder how they tax PHEVs... Maybe that's the golden goose for consumers

That's why my submission to the RUC review last year was that road taxes be removed from fuel, and all vehicles pay RUCs. Only pollution taxes should be applied to fuels. Everybody pays the same for mileage related road costs and it doesn't matter what powers the vehicle. BEVs pay no pollution tax, ICEs pay full pollution tax, and hybrids pay some amount of pollution tax depending on how effective the hybridisation is at reducing fossil fuel use.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#3100232 5-Jul-2023 14:45

MarkH67:

One option for PHEVs would be to charge them the RUC and then they could claim back the road tax upon providing receipts for the petrol they bought. Currently there are owners of petrol powered Winnebago Vectras that do exactly that, due to the weight they have to pay RUC, but because they run on petrol there is road tax charged on the fuel and because they are paying road tax twice they can claim the petrol road tax back.

One diffictulty with this is that you can't easily verify the petrol from the receipts actually went into the PHEV in question. But until everyone pays a RUC and there is no road tax on petrol, what else can you do?

Discussed here recently and that's not the first mention of the uncertainty of future RUCs.

ETA: Also worth noting that there is a hell of a lot of petrol sold currently (with fuel excise tax included) that doesn't fit the eligibility criteria for a refund (e.g. boats, recreational offroad vehicles and power tools). https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/fuel-excise-duty-refunds/

A distance based RUC system for all road vehicles would seem to be the most elegant solution to the present and upcoming complications in its implementation, and preferably GPS monitored for ease of recording, prevention of fraud and administrative simplicity and automation.

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#3100262 5-Jul-2023 15:58

Using my average efficiency, my general per KM cost with RUC on my Model 3 would be 9c/km, assuming nothing changes. I haven't paid for DC charging this year, so far.

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Batman

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#3100455 6-Jul-2023 07:40

not sure what the RUC/km built into petrol tax comes to - i guess it depends on the car's fuel economy right.

so i'm thinking if you remove RUC from petrol tax and bill separately it will benefit my gas guzzler that drinks petrol like no tomorrow. and as mentioned, reduce tax take from boats and jetskis etc. so maybe i should be all for it.

if you leave the RUC in petrol tax it will benefit hybrids who sips fuel.

an interesting one.

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#3100466 6-Jul-2023 08:30

Given the competitive pricing of the base model MG4, I'm thinking about whether it's worth buying one of these before the possible demise of the EV rebate - it seems to offer excellent value for money at $40k, and the size and performance should make it an ideal replacement to my wife's 2011 Leaf (and with over triple the range!). Has anyone heard when cars for test driving and for customer delivery are likely to arrive? I'd not be keen on ordering and then having to pay an extra $7k if it's not registered in time (any idea as to whether National has indicated a timeline for removal if they win?)

My wife's not discounting the idea of the purchase, but one of her questions was does it come with heated seats and steering wheel? Fair enough question, but one that doesn't seem to be answered on MG NZ's website; it looks like it's restricted to upper models in o/s markets and similarly with the ZS here, so potentially the same for the MG4. I'm sure she'd much rather it missed out on other features like wireless charging and V2L rather than the seat heating (I wouldn't be surprised if she'd rather stay with the Leaf if it meant giving up on heated seats!). It's an additional $8k for the higher trim level ($5k more for larger battery version, then another $3k for the better trim), which is a lot to pay for a warm bum!

Anyway, I'm certainly looking forward to taking one for a drive when it finally arrives here.

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#3100470 6-Jul-2023 08:37

Well...if they make it too expensive to run my PHEV on EV vs Petrol....I guess ...I just won't plug it in anymore.

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#3100471 6-Jul-2023 08:49

Azzura:
Well...if they make it too expensive to run my PHEV on EV vs Petrol....I guess ...I just won't plug it in anymore.

Lol. Not so easy. I presume you mean if they double charge RUC. Might have to sell in that case. Which is why they'll be looking at this. The only way is to remove RUC from petrol tax. Which will make gas guzzlers and boaties very very happy.

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#3100474 6-Jul-2023 08:54

jonathan18:

I'd not be keen on ordering and then having to pay an extra $7k if it's not registered in time (any idea as to whether National has indicated a timeline for removal if they win?)

I am in the opposite position to you. I am looking to buy a petrol car and wondered if I should wait until after the election to avoid the ute tax, but my speculation is that it will take quite a while for National to unwind it. This is purely speculation on my part, but they would have to pass legislation which seems unlikely to get through before the Christmas break, hence March next year seems like the earliest they could do it. Of course, this all assumes National actually wins the election which is far from certain.

So, I would say take your time and don't rush through your electric vehicle purchase.

tdgeek

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#3100481 6-Jul-2023 09:03

Batman:

Lol. Not so easy. I presume you mean if they double charge RUC. Might have to sell in that case. Which is why they'll be looking at this. The only way is to remove RUC from petrol tax. Which will make gas guzzlers and boaties very very happy.

Remove RUC from petrol and apply it to all cars, not just diesel as it is at the moment. Many many standard cars are diesel, they seem to have no issue buying RUC mileage

Just do that. Past comments here talk about sensors etc, no need, just apply what applies right now to RUC for diesel owners

Azzura

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#3100484 6-Jul-2023 09:19

Batman:
Azzura:

Well...if they make it too expensive to run my PHEV on EV vs Petrol....I guess ...I just won't plug it in anymore.

Lol. Not so easy. I presume you mean if they double charge RUC. Might have to sell in that case. Which is why they'll be looking at this. The only way is to remove RUC from petrol tax. Which will make gas guzzlers and boaties very very happy.

Time will tell...a lot of cabbies drive hybrids though.

tdgeek

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#3100698 6-Jul-2023 17:49

Azzura:

Time will tell...a lot of cabbies drive hybrids though.

Yep, it needs to be simple. No need to reinvent the wheel, many diesel users already use that wheel. Down the track lets refine it, but what we need already exists.

I contacted my Ranger owning mate today. Buy RUC online or at AA. Its a trust system, so at WOF time if you abuse RUC mileage, no issue. Pulled up by Mr Plod, thats an issue. Buying RUC online? We do HEAPS online now, no issue. Not into that, pop to the AA as I will do soon for a DL renewal.

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