EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#3305166 4-Nov-2024 13:01

Handsomedan:

Using the Chargenet app, we just relied on the data given to us re the available chargers.
Most were full (long weekend) and wait times were long.

I'm not prepared to sign up to every app and every charging service for the "convenience" of being able to charge at potentially a couple of additional places.

The infrastructure isn't fit for purpose.
Charging takes too long.
Charger numbers are too low.
Gas stations are plentiful and you can pay via EFTPOS, Card, Account, Cash etc.
You don't need to be signed up to anything.

EV charging needs to be fast, easy, convenient and available everywhere, or else NZers are not going to see this as an alternative to their gas guzzlers.

Do yourself a favour and load A Better Route Planner. 'Interdenominational' public charger guide can 'design' your best charging strategy for a trip including availability of stalls in real time.

We are signed up for ChargeNet, Z, We EV, Openloop and the only travel disruptions we've had were during the Xmas/New Year period a couple of years ago, but we generally choose not to be part of holiday time traffic (and DC charger congestion). Also our Polestar2 SRSM has a range of ~350km max so less flexibility than your BYD.

Golden rule is to always widen your charging options including by way of grabbing a coffee or snack plus a charge well before battery SoC demands it. Absolutely don't go charging to over 80% on public chargers, especially at busy times, as it makes for very slow charge rates >80% and tends to piss off those waiting for you to finish. In other words be part of the solution not part of the problem.

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Mehrts

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#3305167 4-Nov-2024 13:03

Handsomedan:

I'm not prepared to sign up to every app and every charging service for the "convenience" of being able to charge at potentially a couple of additional places.

Unfortunately this is currently what's on offer, and if you did sign up to a couple of other options, then you would have saved yourself literally (I hate using that term) hours of time.

Everyone agrees that direct payment methods are what's required for the future, because individual apps are clunky and only show some charging info.

In the meantime, if you need a generic app/site which shows ALL charging locations, use Plugshare.
ABRP (a better route planner) is another handy generic site/app to help you out too, especially to figure out a charging strategy for a journey.

Dinga96

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#3305168 4-Nov-2024 13:08

Jase2985:
Handsomedan:

Wait for nearly an hour for a charger to become available There are 7 CCS chargers in Taupo with 3-4 close to taupo unless you werer stuck to one brand of charger then there should have been no need to wait.

Charge for 40 minutes Sounds like you charged to 100 or close to it?? if so, why? Generally speaking, you should only charge to 80-90% as it gos super slow after that, better to charge 2x as it would be faster.

Charge for nearly an hour Again why are you charging so long?

Charge at Bombay to 80% before setting off on the last leg home why not just charge to 30% to get home? then charge at home?

By comparison - if I had still had my Hybrid RAV4 - I would have stopped for gas at some stage in Napier - once and once only. I would have maybe stopped for a toilet break or two, but I wouldn't have been travelling for over 9 hours to get from Napier to Auckland on the way home.

In my old Hybrid, I would have had no range anxiety. No wait times, but more cost overall, as fuel is expensive.

Also - the BYD Atto3 was NOT a comfortable car to drive long distance. Driving position, seats, cruise control, etc - all were far less enjoyable than in any modern car I have had over the last decade or so.

See my comments in bold

Some of those things that caused the extra time are inexperience in the EV world, you will learn better/faster ways to do things and travel. Dont rely on one charging network to charge, also look ahead to see if they are busy and alter your trip if you can. or use a different networks chargers, most are within 10c per kWh for price.

In my leaf which has a range half the size of yours I would have only been charging for 1h20 minutes over 2 charges.

It does take a little more planning and having a backup plan in place than driving an ICE vehicle, but there are apps out there which help things.

Like the other chappie said you seemed to be at the chargers a long time,probably charging to full.Thats going to soak up alot of minutes and extra cost.You chose to travel on labor weekend.Most other times this kind of problem with charging would not be an issue.

SaltyNZ

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#3305170 4-Nov-2024 13:11

Jase2985:

Charge at Bombay to 80% before setting off on the last leg home why not just charge to 30% to get home? then charge at home?

Definitely this. Last week due to a highly unusual combination of circumstances we were in the Tesla in the city with an estimate of 1% remaining upon arrival at home. So we stopped at the Albany Pak'n'Save to charge for about 5 minutes which added about 50km, more than enough for comfort. Not till the car was full.

Taupo is pretty dire though. It has many chargers, but it's also on SH1 and the most logical place for every man and his dog to stop for lunch. The last time we were down that way in the MG we were lucky to only be waiting for 20 minutes. You could easily double the number of chargers and still have queues during really peak times.

Tesla superchargers no problem though. ;-)

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HarmLessSolutions

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#3305172 4-Nov-2024 13:23

Jase2985:

Handsomedan:

We've had a century or more of drive. Stop. Fill up. Move on.

Yep but EV's aren't ICE's. They are different, have shorter range, take longer to charger and until you realise that you will be stuck in your old ways of Stop. Fill up. Move on.

Things will get better, and we are still in the early adopter phase. Technology is getting better all the time and in 5-10 years the range will be a lot higher as will the charging rate.

Absolutely, times are changing. Chances are Handsomedan investigated the optimal electricity supplier's plan to home charge his EV and putting some effort into DC charging options is pretty similar.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

dafman

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#3305175 4-Nov-2024 13:42

Jase2985:

Yep but EV's aren't ICE's. They are different, have shorter range, take longer to charger and until you realise that you will be stuck in your old ways of Stop. Fill up. Move on.

Things will get better, and we are still in the early adopter phase. Technology is getting better all the time and in 5-10 years the range will be a lot higher as will the charging rate.

For many of us, the "old" ways of: Stop. Fill up. Move on

sure beat: Stop, wait an age, move on, stop yet again, wait an age, move on.

EVs have a place and many happy owners. But their use case, I would argue, is for a minority of vehicle owners.

I am convinced non-plug in hybrids are the way of the future for the majority. I recently hired a Camry Hybrid in Australia and initially thought fuel gauge was faulty as the needle didn't move for the first few days. No range anxiety, no waiting around to charge, way lower fuel costs, lower emissions. My next car will almost certainly be a hybrid.

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Jase2985

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#3305178 4-Nov-2024 13:50

dafman:

For many of us, the "old" ways of: Stop. Fill up. Move on

sure beat: Stop, wait an age, move on, stop yet again, wait an age, move on.

EVs have a place and many happy owners. But their use case, I would argue, is for a minority of vehicle owners.

Correct, but if you have one, you have to adapt.

trig42

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#3305179 4-Nov-2024 13:51

Handsomedan:

Having just returned last weekend from my first trip away in the EV, I would like to offer a little insight as to why I am not 100% certain that EV's are the way of the future for the masses in NZ:

Trip from AKL to Napier (approx 425km)
BYD Atto3 (fully charged at home before setting off - indicates 480km range)
Stop at Taupo to charge (50% charge left)
Wait for nearly an hour for a charger to become available
Charge for 40 minutes
Make our way to Napier
Thankfully there's a charger near the hotel
Spend the weekend in Hawkes Bay - relatively free access to the charger around the corner until the last day of the long weekend
Charge the car to full in Napier befor leaving - after waiting for around an hour at 6.30am for the others in the queue to finish charging
Travel to Taupo
Wait for an hour for a charger to be free
Charge for nearly an hour
Travel through a lot of detours as much of SH1 is closed
Get to Bombay with only 10% battery left
Charge at Bombay to 80% before setting off on the last leg home
The trip home was over 9 hours total.
By comparison - if I had still had my Hybrid RAV4 - I would have stopped for gas at some stage in Napier - once and once only. I would have maybe stopped for a toilet break or two, but I wouldn't have been travelling for over 9 hours to get from Napier to Auckland on the way home.

In my old Hybrid, I would have had no range anxiety. No wait times, but more cost overall, as fuel is expensive.

Also - the BYD Atto3 was NOT a comfortable car to drive long distance. Driving position, seats, cruise control, etc - all were far less enjoyable than in any modern car I have had over the last decade or so.

I know there's been a lot of other answers, but I'll add my 2c.

We've done the Napier trip a few times (in an MG4, so similar battery size) from Paeroa.

The ChargeNet chargers in Taupo are great, but queues. For that reason, I generally avoid and use the BP chargers at Wairakei - never had to queue. They're not as fast, and not in town, but for a long weekend, I'd stop there.

Napier, currently, is terrible for EV charging. ChargeNet have two 50kW chargers, one in town and one at New World in Greenmeadows. On a long weekend, they're always in use so you have to queue. ChargeNet did have some 'coming soon' I think (maybe at the Pak'n'Save in town?). Z has some coming soon in town as well. Until they get more online, Napier will remain terrible. I was in Napier over King's Birthday weekend and had to sneak into town at about 6pm one night (and still had to wait for one car to finish up) for a 30 minute 50kW charge. It was cheap though (40c per kWh).

On your way home, if you'd had enough to get to Tirau, the BP chargers there are great - 10 stalls so chances of having to queue are pretty minimal and you would have been able to squeeze enough in to get home in about 20 minutes of charging (if that).

So, whilst you say you don't want to sign up to lots of different apps, that is like saying you'll only ever buy petrol from one brand of gas station. It takes a couple of minutes to sign up to Z and BP and it greatly expands your choices. Then download the Plugshare App, set the filters to >25kW charging (to filter out all the slow AC chargers) and plan your route from there. Relying on just ChargeNet does make your trip a lot harder.

SaltyNZ

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#3305180 4-Nov-2024 14:04

dafman:

For many of us, the "old" ways of: Stop. Fill up. Move on

For others of us, the old ways of: Oh, it's Monday morning and I have no petrol, have to stop at the petrol station ... Oh, it's Friday afternoon and I have no petrol, have to stop at the petrol station ...

Are thoroughly beaten by the "my car is full every morning". The other 2 days a year that I need to use public chargers are not in practice a big deal to me, and I've been driving EVs since 2018. Most recently we drove the Tesla to Wellington and back for WoW. Admittedly this meant we didn't have to wait in line with the plebs for a non-Tesla charger in Taupo ...

But still - no way I want to go back to regular forced special trips to a place where I have to wait in line to get petrol in exchange for 2 days a year of somewhat longer wait times which I can easily plan around if it's that big a deal for me.

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geocom

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#3305202 4-Nov-2024 14:35

dafman:

EVs have a place and many happy owners. But their use case, I would argue, is for a minority of vehicle owners.

I would disagree. The majority of people are not doing road trips as part of their every day driving. The average km driven per year in nz is 14,000 most EV's(excluding leafs in this) will give you at least around 300km per charge so if you used all of your battery in one day everyday for a year you would be looking at 109,500km so 7 to 8 times more than the average.

Lets be generous and say your doing a 600km road trip every weekend your looking at 62,400km which is still 4 times over the average and your only talking about a fraction of the amount you would otherwise likely drive.

For the most part your going to get home plug in the charger and leave it to charge over night. For the most part my time spent charging my EV is seconds vs at least a few minutes at a petrol station.

Yes there is a discussion to be had over the charging infrastructure it needs to be more built out its going to have to be service stations on main routes have what 16 fuel pumps vs 1 to 3 charging stations at the moment in many locations and there are still a lot of chargers that are slower than others. But we are still in the early stages. Demand is going to be a main driver on supply. The companies want to make money having people drive to one of your competitors is not going to do this but in the same hand the cost of investment in chargers that otherwise sit empty is also not going to do this.

Geoff E

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#3305207 4-Nov-2024 14:46

dafman:

Jase2985:

Yep but EV's aren't ICE's. They are different, have shorter range, take longer to charger and until you realise that you will be stuck in your old ways of Stop. Fill up. Move on.

Things will get better, and we are still in the early adopter phase. Technology is getting better all the time and in 5-10 years the range will be a lot higher as will the charging rate.

For many of us, the "old" ways of: Stop. Fill up. Move on

sure beat: Stop, wait an age, move on, stop yet again, wait an age, move on.

EVs have a place and many happy owners. But their use case, I would argue, is for a minority of vehicle owners.

I am convinced non-plug in hybrids are the way of the future for the majority. I recently hired a Camry Hybrid in Australia and initially thought fuel gauge was faulty as the needle didn't move for the first few days. No range anxiety, no waiting around to charge, way lower fuel costs, lower emissions. My next car will almost certainly be a hybrid.

I already drive one. And if I haven't already mentioned it, they're the ideal stepping stone between the past and the future of motoring.

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Scott3

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#3305272 4-Nov-2024 15:41

SaltyNZ:

....

Admittedly this meant we didn't have to wait in line with the plebs for a non-Tesla charger in Taupo ...

....

Should note the Rainbow point (Kokomea Village) Taupo 9 stall tesla supercharger is open to all CCS2 cars.

Non tesla drivers get a slightly higher price of 94c/kWh, and have to turn it on with their phone.

dafman

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#3305329 4-Nov-2024 21:50

geocom:

dafman:

EVs have a place and many happy owners. But their use case, I would argue, is for a minority of vehicle owners.

I would disagree. The majority of people are not doing road trips as part of their every day driving. The average km driven per year in nz is 14,000 most EV's(excluding leafs in this) will give you at least around 300km per charge so if you used all of your battery in one day everyday for a year you would be looking at 109,500km so 7 to 8 times more than the average.

Lets be generous and say your doing a 600km road trip every weekend your looking at 62,400km which is still 4 times over the average and your only talking about a fraction of the amount you would otherwise likely drive.

For the most part your going to get home plug in the charger and leave it to charge over night. For the most part my time spent charging my EV is seconds vs at least a few minutes at a petrol station.

Yes there is a discussion to be had over the charging infrastructure it needs to be more built out its going to have to be service stations on main routes have what 16 fuel pumps vs 1 to 3 charging stations at the moment in many locations and there are still a lot of chargers that are slower than others. But we are still in the early stages. Demand is going to be a main driver on supply. The companies want to make money having people drive to one of your competitors is not going to do this but in the same hand the cost of investment in chargers that otherwise sit empty is also not going to do this.

Filling up my ICE takes 5 mins once fortnight on average (combo shop & fill up at Paknsave) versus plugging and unplugging 14 times over the fortnight. Is my life particularly more onerous, not really (and possibly even less onerous). And when we do travel long distances - which is quite often - we are significantly more time rich and have more flexibility around our travel options.

And if I lived in a house with no off-street parking (I have lived in several in the past) then the convenience of an ICE car leaps streets ahead.

EVs are great for some people, I totally get that. But not yet for me, or for many others. I have yet to have the EV road to Damascus conversion and I doubt I will any time soon.

If (or when) the Chinese significantly extend range and shorten charging times - and the charging infrastructure scales up to match - then yes, I will probably be enticed to switch. But this is some years off. In the interim, I love my current ICE experience but likely will be tempted to shift into a hybrid next time around for the greater the fuel and emission savings.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3305330 4-Nov-2024 21:55

dafman:

......But this is some years off. In the interim, I love my current ICE experience but likely will be tempted to shift into a hybrid next time around for the greater the fuel and emission savings.

By then the levying of distance based RUCs on petrol cars, including hybrids, will have severely eroded the 'fuel' saving advantages. Just saying.

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geocom

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#3305332 4-Nov-2024 21:59

Not sure why you think you would need to charge every night as I say unless your depleting your battery every day which would be over 100,000 km a year in which case your not the average person.

if you are doing that distance the savings of a EV get so much larger anyway but I don't think that's the case if your only doing fortnightly refueling.

Geoff E

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