Why is driver training being ignored? Aw

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#2156758 9-Jan-2019 08:43

MikeB4:

its valid as it is a rate per population, we have a lot to learn from the UK. My youngest son has been there for the last year and he tells me the driving in the UK is considerably better than here. On the motorways he has experienced non of the aggressive, impatient, patch guarding nonsense we get here. He also tells that when parking in London you don't get the impatient aggressive morons who's life you have totally ruined by delaying them for 30 seconds.

OK, well perhaps the Police can enforce the rules more? But if they did, the comments would be revenue gathering. With a Kiwi mindset like that there is no solution

Geektastic

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#2156762 9-Jan-2019 08:59

I never understand the revenue gathering complaint. Contributing to the revenue is entirely voluntary. You need only obey the law to avoid doing so...

Geektastic

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#2156766 9-Jan-2019 09:05

tdgeek:
Why do some who originate from overseas always keep referring to the homeland? I have a colleague like that, I wonder why he lives here

In the vain hope that people here will grasp that there are other ways of doing things which - and I know this is hard for the more parochial kiwi to grasp - are sometimes actually better than what evolved locally.

It works both ways: just the other day I suggested in The Times that the UK would benefit greatly from something similar to Public Trust.

Nowhere is perfect and to discount suggestions from those with wider experience is just short sighted.
No country has a monopoly on good ideas and copying others, be it the UK, Australia, Japan or wherever is common sense given their greater populations, R&D budgets etc etc. No point in reinventing the wheel.

tdgeek

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#2156767 9-Jan-2019 09:07

Geektastic: I never understand the revenue gathering complaint. Contributing to the revenue is entirely voluntary. You need only obey the law to avoid doing so...

How long have you been here??? Every time the words ticket and police are mentioned, the reason is revenue gathering. Thats the mindset. It couldnt possibly be to change peoples behaviour, its only about revenue gathering. As far as this topic is concerned, driver training wont help. Thats not the issue, the issue is impatience, I own the road and so on. We cannot enforce that as thats meanspirited and revenue gathering. Its essentially the culture for some

Geektastic

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#2156768 9-Jan-2019 09:11

tdgeek:
Geektastic: I never understand the revenue gathering complaint. Contributing to the revenue is entirely voluntary. You need only obey the law to avoid doing so...

How long have you been here??? Every time the words ticket and police are mentioned, the reason is revenue gathering. Thats the mindset. It couldnt possibly be to change peoples behaviour, its only about revenue gathering. As far as this topic is concerned, driver training wont help. Thats not the issue, the issue is impatience, I own the road and so on. We cannot enforce that as thats meanspirited and revenue gathering. Its essentially the culture for some

Sorry. My mistake! Haven't had enough coffee yet and puppy kept me awake.

Silly boy. Note to self - ensure minimum coffee intake before posting!

tdgeek

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#2156770 9-Jan-2019 09:15

Geektastic:
tdgeek:

Why do some who originate from overseas always keep referring to the homeland? I have a colleague like that, I wonder why he lives here

In the vain hope that people here will grasp that there are other ways of doing things which - and I know this is hard for the more parochial kiwi to grasp - are sometimes actually better than what evolved locally.

It works both ways: just the other day I suggested in The Times that the UK would benefit greatly from something similar to Public Trust.

Nowhere is perfect and to discount suggestions from those with wider experience is just short sighted.
No country has a monopoly on good ideas and copying others, be it the UK, Australia, Japan or wherever is common sense given their greater populations, R&D budgets etc etc. No point in reinventing the wheel.

No, I am not short sighted and you didn't read what I typed, and what I replied to with Mike

"Why do some who originate from overseas always keep referring to the homeland? I have a colleague like that, I wonder why he lives here"

I wasn't referring to this specific topic, but generally. hence "I have a colleague like that, I wonder why he lives here"

Dingbatt

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#2156772 9-Jan-2019 09:19

Geektastic:
tdgeek:
Why do some who originate from overseas always keep referring to the homeland? I have a colleague like that, I wonder why he lives here

In the vain hope that people here will grasp that there are other ways of doing things which - and I know this is hard for the more parochial kiwi to grasp - are sometimes actually better than what evolved locally.

It works both ways: just the other day I suggested in The Times that the UK would benefit greatly from something similar to Public Trust.

Nowhere is perfect and to discount suggestions from those with wider experience is just short sighted.
No country has a monopoly on good ideas and copying others, be it the UK, Australia, Japan or wherever is common sense given their greater populations, R&D budgets etc etc. No point in reinventing the wheel.

I mentioned your comment about joining the M25 at 130km/hr to a friend who lives in Windsor. His reply was "Why would you drive into a carpark at 130km/hr?"
Here in Auckland, things are back to normal, despite it still being school holidays. The tradies have had their two weeks off and are back to sitting right on your rear bumper in their dual cab utes despite travelling at the speed limit. Indicators are still optional equipment in 2019. And the law about cellphone use while driving must only apply to even years.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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tdgeek

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#2156776 9-Jan-2019 09:25

Apparently the M25 is a nightmare ring road. Plus this humourous story

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2074156/Lost-pensioner-Dennis-Leighton-spends-TWO-DAYS-driving-M25.html

frankv

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#2156798 9-Jan-2019 09:46

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

Why do some who originate from overseas always keep referring to the homeland? I have a colleague like that, I wonder why he lives here

In some cases it is valid. Example the UK their death per 100,000 people is +/- 2.8, New Zealand is +/- 9.0.

Not particularly valid. The UK has a much better public transport system, notably trains, so cars as used much less. So it's not particularly significant that their road fatality rate per 100,000 people is much smaller.

IMHO, the accident/fatality rate per billion km driven is much more relevant. So I'm surprised that in this regard the UK (3.4) (and most of Europe, conspicuously excluding Czech Republic and perhaps Slovenia, Belgium, and France) is still vastly better than NZ (8.7) and USA (7.3). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

frankv

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#2156804 9-Jan-2019 09:53

Geektastic:
tdgeek:

Why do some who originate from overseas always keep referring to the homeland? I have a colleague like that, I wonder why he lives here

In the vain hope that people here will grasp that there are other ways of doing things which - and I know this is hard for the more parochial kiwi to grasp - are sometimes actually better than what evolved locally.

Do you not think that the NZ attitudes of "If it's not illegal, then do it" and "Laws are guidelines, not absolute truths" are perhaps part of the reason why NZ is a better place to live than elsewhere?

shk292

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#2156809 9-Jan-2019 09:58

frankv:

IMHO, the accident/fatality rate per billion km driven is much more relevant. So I'm surprised that in this regard the UK (3.4) (and most of Europe, conspicuously excluding Czech Republic and perhaps Slovenia, Belgium, and France) is still vastly better than NZ (8.7) and USA (7.3). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

I'd put a lot of that down to compulsory insurance and the policing of this

If you look at a lot of the vehicles and drivers in NZ, particularly combinations such as old, heavily modified vehicles and drivers who are very young or with records of offences - most of these would not be able to afford insurance, and in most developed countries would therefore not be on the road contributing to the crash rate.

I think ACC is a great system but by removing accountability it seems to encourage irresponsible behaviour. Compulsory insurance would reverse this to some extent.

tdgeek

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#2156814 9-Jan-2019 10:02

shk292:

frankv:

IMHO, the accident/fatality rate per billion km driven is much more relevant. So I'm surprised that in this regard the UK (3.4) (and most of Europe, conspicuously excluding Czech Republic and perhaps Slovenia, Belgium, and France) is still vastly better than NZ (8.7) and USA (7.3). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

I'd put a lot of that down to compulsory insurance and the policing of this

If you look at a lot of the vehicles and drivers in NZ, particularly combinations such as old, heavily modified vehicles and drivers who are very young or with records of offences - most of these would not be able to afford insurance, and in most developed countries would therefore not be on the road contributing to the crash rate.

I think ACC is a great system but by removing accountability it seems to encourage irresponsible behaviour. Compulsory insurance would reverse this to some extent.

I don't see ACC as the issue. Get a fine, don't pay it, life is good. If offences are not policed, they will keep ocurring

MikeB4

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#2156815 9-Jan-2019 10:03

One thing that I have always thought was crazy and please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is a new driver has no restriction on the power of a car they can own or drive, e.g get their licence today and go and by an Audi R8, that is insane. We recognise the problem when it comes to motorcycles but not with cars.

tdgeek

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#2156818 9-Jan-2019 10:10

MikeB4:

One thing that I have always thought was crazy and please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is a new driver has no restriction on the power of a car they can own or drive, e.g get their licence today and go and by an Audi R8, that is insane. We recognise the problem when it comes to motorcycles but not with cars.

Valid point. You would need to go by rated HP not engine capacity, and also mandate that zero car modifications are allowed for drivers under the age of x

But I still feel we need to replace wet bus tickets with carbon fibre ones if we are to force younger generation ( and older) to drive responsibly.

Make bad driving hurt the pocketbook.

shk292

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#2156819 9-Jan-2019 10:10

MikeB4:

One thing that I have always thought was crazy and please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is a new driver has no restriction on the power of a car they can own or drive, e.g get their licence today and go and by an Audi R8, that is insane. We recognise the problem when it comes to motorcycles but not with cars.

That's kind of my point re insurance. Nothing to stop an 18-year old buying a 20-year old WRX, modding it for extra boost and noise and then making a complete socially-offensive nuisance of himself until he wraps it and some of his mates around a power-pole. And, as pointed out above, if he gets any fines in the meantime these are likely to be ignored.

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