Why is driver training being ignored? Aw

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Why is driver training being ignored? Aw

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#243738 29-Dec-2018 11:43

So I see in this morning's paper that we have another death on the roads overnight.

The government recently announced a significant amount of expenditure to make roads safer.

We can all accept that NZ has many unsafe, poorly designed roads and that sorting that out is a Good Thing.

However, by and large, vehicles do not randomly leave the road and hit poles, fall off bridges, drive into oncoming traffic etc etc. People make them do those things.

So why is the welcome improvement work on road design not being matched with work to improve the skills of the people doing the driving?

It is clearly even more necessary than the road improvement.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | ... | 13

3885 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1749

#2151831 29-Dec-2018 12:20

Because the biggest voter bloc in NZ is the baby boomers and retirees. And they would bitterly complain and probably vote out any government That tries to introduce proper driver training and testing. As such drivers typically think that they are perfect drivers. Yet if they were good drivers, why are they afraid to do a driving test?

Look at what happened when photo drivers licences were introduced. You would have thought that the world was about to end with the number of complaints from that.

Yes I do support better driver testing and training. But I can't see the government actually implementing it anytime soon.

afe66

3181 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1678

Lifetime subscriber

#2151835 29-Dec-2018 12:52

Also because every nz driver considers themselves to be a better than average driver they dont see why they should do courses. The other drivers on the other hand...

I consider myself a average or below average driver. Get annoyed sometimes.

I have never met another driver in nz who has said they are not above average.

This denial is an issue with why everyone drives faster than the limit and complains about tickets.

lurker

838 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 223

Lifetime subscriber

#2151885 29-Dec-2018 14:32

I was wondering how many of the people involved aren't licensed to begin with and why - failed a test or is getting up to that stage too expensive for them.

Some stats on this page but the PDF links are broken: https://www.transport.govt.nz/mot-resources/road-safety-resources/roadcrashstatistics/highriskdriversstatistics/

"Many of the young high-risk drivers (48% of 15 to 19 year olds) have licence-related factors such as being disqualified or unlicensed."

I'd be interested to know the split between the unlicensed and the disqualified because it seems a proportion of people at this end of the age spectrum aren't taking what's already available, presumably because they feel entitled to drive without completing licensing requirements

mudguard

2327 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1250

#2151902 29-Dec-2018 15:01

afe66: Also because every nz driver considers themselves to be a better than average driver they dont see why they should do courses. The other drivers on the other hand...

I consider myself a average or below average driver. Get annoyed sometimes.

I have never met another driver in nz who has said they are not above average.

This denial is an issue with why everyone drives faster than the limit and complains about tickets.

I am an extremely average driver. I've done hundreds of laps round Pukekohe and Hampton Downs that confirms it!

MadEngineer

4591 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2570

Trusted

#2151918 29-Dec-2018 15:58

A simple 20km drive this morning to a blue berry farm yeilded so many events it wasn’t funny and reinforces this. Cars parked on the side of the road half pulling into the road in front of me as I’ve got oncoming traffic. A large truck going too fast for the conditions coming down onto a cyclist on his side and having to cross into my side of the road to pass. If he was driving slower he could have slowed behind the cyclist and pulled out to pass once I had gone. Damn scary when you’ve got someone else’s kid in your car.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2152034 29-Dec-2018 22:38

I wondered which country really made a good effort to have safe, qualified drivers. Turns out Denmark is the leader:

"Denmark has the strictest rules and the hardest tests to get a drivers license.

First you need to have at least 22 hours of theory about how to drive and how a car works.

Then you need some 20 or so lessons of driving with an instructer. First at a closed off place for a few hours where you learn how the car handles, you may need more hours to learn how to handle the car, and you’ll only be allowed on the road when you instructer is satisfied with you ability to not hit stuff and brake when you are to brake.

Then you need some 10 hours of actually driving on the roads with your instructer.

After that you have to go to the first test, it is a test, much like an exam where you sit and answer 25 questions, you are only allowed to have 5 mistakes, the questions can be really tricky. They show a picture on a big screen of a situation taken from real life and then give you some options(multiple choice) of what you would do in this situation.

After passing that you have to go to a water track and learn how to handle the car in rough weather.

Then there are a few more hours of driving in normal traffic until your instructer is satisfied with your ability to drive.

At last there is the practical test. Another instructer (employed at the polices’ license and registration office) sits in the car with you and he/she tests you, he/she tells you where to go, he/she tries to make you break the law, he/she tries to trick you by telling you to go up one way streets or drive too fast or something, while he/she does this he questions you about stuff and tries to take your focus of the wheel as he/she tests your ability to concentrate on what you are doing. You are allowed to have NO single mistake in this test, else you are failed."

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

Dingbatt

6804 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3694

Lifetime subscriber

#2152063 30-Dec-2018 07:35

Aredwood: Because the biggest voter bloc in NZ is the baby boomers and retirees. And they would bitterly complain and probably vote out any government That tries to introduce proper driver training and testing. As such drivers typically think that they are perfect drivers. Yet if they were good drivers, why are they afraid to do a driving test?

Look at what happened when photo drivers licences were introduced. You would have thought that the world was about to end with the number of complaints from that.

Yes I do support better driver testing and training. But I can't see the government actually implementing it anytime soon.

Once again everything is the 'boomers fault. (You might want to get that chip on your shoulder checked out).*

I would say age is no determinant of poor driving, all ages are represented. The biggest wakeup factor for me was teaching my children to drive. As well as having to update my own knowledge of the road rules, I had to examine my own driving habits and the example I was setting when they were in the car. I also rode along on some of the professional lessons we got to make sure I wasn't teaching bad habits. I noticed how impatient and aggressive other drivers were, even when there was a clearly displayed L Plate. That made me examine my own level of aggression while driving.

The first lesson for each of my children didn't even leave the driveway. It consisted of a front to rear inspection of the car (including under the hood) and how to change a tyre. Once inside the vehicle, adjusting the seat and mirrors, and what every primary switch and control did. Luckily we had some new developments in our area with very little traffic on the weekends which allowed us to get the car control basics sorted out.

The restricted licence test is not an easy one to pass, nor should it be. And I would like to see restricted drivers having to display P or R plates until they are on their full licence.

But the two biggest things (IMHO) are aggression and willful law breaking. Would you tailgate the car in front of you that is traveling at the speed limit of it was a police car? Likewise, would you continue to talk or text on your phone on the motorway if the car beside you was a police car? If the answer is, of course not, then maybe you shouldn't do it when there are no police around. And that is a basic attitude that is ingrained in NZ life and will be difficult to shift.

* Not a boomer by the way.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

k1w1k1d

1711 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1305

#2152072 30-Dec-2018 08:14

I got my original car driving licence back in 1975 and truck/trailer a couple of years later. That is over 40 years ago and is the last time I have had to learn the road rules and prove that I am fit to drive on the road.

Driving conditions have changed a hell of a lot since then, but no one has checked that I know the rules and am still a competent driver.

There should at least be a written and oral test every time you renew your licence. At least then there would be some chance that drivers might know what the flush median lines are for.

But, there would be a huge uproar if the government tried to introduce this testing. Many people would just not bother and drive unlicensed. Bad luck if you actually got caught, just another fine to ignore. As long as you don't speed too much, drive a reasonable looking car, and keep off the booze, the chances of getting stopped are pretty slim. I've only ever been stopped about 2 or 3 times by checkpoints and they never asked to see my licence.

After all, I am a New Zealander, I have a right to drive, and I know that I am an excellent driver

scuwp

3927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2510

#2152077 30-Dec-2018 08:49

Train them all you like. It won’t fix attitude which is the main problem. This will only get worse as the waves of self-entitled “it’s all about me” and “I want it now” students hit the road. Respect, courtesy, patience, and consideration are increasingly missing.

Any extra burden of training or testing, and the cost associated with that with be hugely political, including that being able to drive means people can work and that means economic growth and individual employment are also affected. It will be a brave party that will go down that tunnel.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2152081 30-Dec-2018 09:10

Making insurance mandatory might at least impose limits on young inexperienced drivers being able to drive cars that they really, in most cases, ought not to be allowed to drive yet.

There does seem to be an odd attitude to obeying laws and paying fines. Quite a lot of people seem to believe such things are optional.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1749

#2152105 30-Dec-2018 10:01

Dingbatt:

Once again everything is the 'boomers fault. (You might want to get that chip on your shoulder checked out).*

I would say age is no determinant of poor driving, all ages are represented. The biggest wakeup factor for me was teaching my children to drive. As well as having to update my own knowledge of the road rules, I had to examine my own driving habits and the example I was setting when they were in the car. I also rode along on some of the professional lessons we got to make sure I wasn't teaching bad habits. I noticed how impatient and aggressive other drivers were, even when there was a clearly displayed L Plate. That made me examine my own level of aggression while driving.

The first lesson for each of my children didn't even leave the driveway. It consisted of a front to rear inspection of the car (including under the hood) and how to change a tyre. Once inside the vehicle, adjusting the seat and mirrors, and what every primary switch and control did. Luckily we had some new developments in our area with very little traffic on the weekends which allowed us to get the car control basics sorted out.

The restricted licence test is not an easy one to pass, nor should it be. And I would like to see restricted drivers having to display P or R plates until they are on their full licence.

But the two biggest things (IMHO) are aggression and willful law breaking. Would you tailgate the car in front of you that is traveling at the speed limit of it was a police car? Likewise, would you continue to talk or text on your phone on the motorway if the car beside you was a police car? If the answer is, of course not, then maybe you shouldn't do it when there are no police around. And that is a basic attitude that is ingrained in NZ life and will be difficult to shift.

* Not a boomer by the way.

The requirement to go through a restricted licence stage was only introduced in 1987. So there will be a large group of people who are older than approx age 45, who at best would have only done the equivalent driving tests as someone who currently holds a restricted licence. (only 1 practical test). And that is before you consider the gradual tightening of the practical test criteria. And heavier traffic today also makes the test harder.

The retesting should at least be designed to bring all drivers up to the same standard as someone who is getting their drivers license under the current system. As for baby boomers, They must surely be aware of the general poor driving standards on the roads. So why are they not using their voting power to demand tougher testing standards for all drivers?

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#2152149 30-Dec-2018 10:45

I'm certain that almost all fatalities are the result of people willingly flouting laws they know and lack of experience - not ignorance of the laws themselves.
As for people condemning idiot young folks "boy racers" etc, perhaps some of them need to take a look at their attitude to car culture, where many drive "performance" cars and treat motoring as a competitive sport / status symbol, then expect the young and less well to do to behave otherwise.