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Batman

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#154886 11-Nov-2014 20:10
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So I am very disappointed at car quality ...

GOt a 2012 new car just coz at that very moment in time there were no cheap imports, new regulations, 2nd hand cars were around 10-15k (*yes!) dearer than an equivalent today.

Noticed that brakes were juddering after going downhill say 1km.

Took it for warranty repair for the 2nd time (1st time machined it, didn't really fix it)

The engineer said - well you must have over heated it before and once you do that the front rotors are forever scarred. Did you remember doing that? I said, umm yes the first time it happened i came down from a mountain (ski field, no snow, ie normal sealed road normal tyres) in the middle of it it did that. Aha he said.

So i said you're not supposed to brake going down hills?

He said - umm you should put it to manual and use engine braking.

I said - who does that? He said - well if you don't this is what happens. I said, show me where in the manual it says to do that.

Then there was a discussion about which is worse - burnt out pads or warped rotors, or dead transmission.

(Note: they honoured the warranty, they were very nice about it but seriously! Underpowered car and underspec-ed brakes)




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Inphinity
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  #1173064 11-Nov-2014 20:19
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There sure are plenty of cheap junk cars out there, just like most products. 

Bung
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  #1173111 11-Nov-2014 20:57
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This is out of the manual for our car

"Try not to hold the brake pedal down
too long or too often while going
down a steep or long hill. This could
cause the brakes to overheat, resulting in reduced braking efficiency.
Failure to take this precaution could
result in loss of vehicle control."

They have no idea how long or steep your hills are going to be so a statement like that is pretty standard.

 
 
 
 


Jase2985
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  #1173114 11-Nov-2014 20:58
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engine braking is not going to damage your transmission, look at race cars who are using standard treansmissions they engine brake all the time (in addition to the brakes)

throw it into second, take your foot off the accelerator and let it settle on a speed (normally about 30-40) and away you go, need to go faster throw it into 3rd need to go slower, brake. the car will normally settle on a natural speed for the motor and transmission combination.

if you overheat your brakes once generally it will do it again much more easily (warping) in the future.

TBH it shouldn't have to say it in a manual, but im pretty sure most cars ive owned suggest you change into L or 3 etc when going down a hill or when towing, why would you not apply this?

Plus i thought it was common sense?


scuwp
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  #1173119 11-Nov-2014 21:07
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Common knowledge I thought. Extended periods of heavy braking are to be avoided if possible, due to overheating and warped disks as in is case. Unless you invest in some heavy duty race pads, calipers, and disks.




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  #1173120 11-Nov-2014 21:07
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I would do that in a manual car, coz ... I have to "drive" a manual car

I tried to that in the auto car, but it didn't feel natural, as I'd put it in manual select upon braking, it would select a gear that as bugger all RPMs. downshift downshift downshift downshift downshift from 6th to 2nd before any decent RPMs applied (only 4000rpm) - the ratios are not well chosen. Within a second it's time to accelerate, so flick it back to auto, car jerks like a truck, and before you know it it's time to brake. downshift downshift downshift downshift downshift downshift from 6th to 2nd to apply any RPMs (1st is too tall) . Rinse and repeat many times, oops brakes gone.




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  #1173123 11-Nov-2014 21:09
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Jase2985: engine braking is not going to damage your transmission, look at race cars who are using standard treansmissions they engine brake all the time (in addition to the brakes)

throw it into second, take your foot off the accelerator and let it settle on a speed (normally about 30-40) and away you go, need to go faster throw it into 3rd need to go slower, brake. the car will normally settle on a natural speed for the motor and transmission combination.

if you overheat your brakes once generally it will do it again much more easily (warping) in the future.

TBH it shouldn't have to say it in a manual, but im pretty sure most cars ive owned suggest you change into L or 3 etc when going down a hill or when towing, why would you not apply this?

Plus i thought it was common sense?



see my post, despite engine braking to the max of the car's transmission ratio would allow, brakes overheated.

It was coronet peak, not even a high mountain. and no I wasn't driving like possum borne, the SUV doesn't do rallying.




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Jase2985
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  #1173124 11-Nov-2014 21:10
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why not just let it go at one speed? instead of braking and accelerating all the time?

if you want to drive like that (race car like) upgrade your discs and pads

i highly doubt you engine brakes to the max the car allowed either, either that or the car had absolutely crap brakes (which i doubt it)

 
 
 
 


Batman

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  #1173126 11-Nov-2014 21:10
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I guess an SUV is an supersized wagon spec-ed for a wagon so everything is underdone




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Jase2985
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  #1173127 11-Nov-2014 21:12
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joker97: I guess an SUV is an supersized wagon spec-ed for a wagon so everything is underdone


care to share the make model and year so we can actually get an idea of the specs we are dealing with here?

ive been on that road , throw it into one of the lower gears and leave it, dont need to touch the accelerator just the brake when you get up a Little to much speed. done no issues at all

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  #1173128 11-Nov-2014 21:13
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Jase2985: why not just let it go at one speed? instead of braking and accelerating all the time?

if you want to drive like that (race car like) upgrade your discs and pads



how to drive at one speed? upon exiting a 15kph corner the car is not moving. you need to get it going otherwise it just sits there. once it hits around 40kph gravity takes over and it wants to fly, so you have to get it slowed for the next 15kph corner don't you, otherwise going at 40 it will fly off the mountain

are you suggesting we go 15kph the whole time?




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Batman

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  #1173130 11-Nov-2014 21:13
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Jase2985:
joker97: I guess an SUV is an supersized wagon spec-ed for a wagon so everything is underdone


care to share the make model and year so we can actually get an idea of the specs we are dealing with here?


Nissan X Trail

unfortunately I came from Australia where the top 10 best selling cars were mainly SUVs. heck that's what killed the Fords and Holdens. Last year the top selling car is Oz was the Hilux (in some months I thnk). yep




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Jase2985
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  #1173137 11-Nov-2014 21:24
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im suggesting if the next corner is only far enough away to get up to 40kph then why not go to 25-30kph instead of 40, thats a heap less energy to dissipate before the corner.

kiwirock
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  #1173139 11-Nov-2014 21:26
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joker97:
Jase2985:
joker97: I guess an SUV is an supersized wagon spec-ed for a wagon so everything is underdone


care to share the make model and year so we can actually get an idea of the specs we are dealing with here?


Nissan X Trail


My Nissan Stagea has all disc with the front ventilated. It was like that straight after imported (shuddering from the front rotors). I had enough meat left on the rotors to have them off and machined true. There's no scarring if you machine them enough and replace the pads.

I've done 210,000 on the factory rotors. Almost due to replace them though. Being a Nissan, the rear shocks are due and the motors making anoying noises but the Invercargill dealers didn't do a great job on the Cambelt change and didn't replace all parts asked for. So I have to drive 3 hours to the next nearest dealer to get jobs done properly.

I'm guessing you got the CVT auto? Or 5 speed manual? I'd go for 5 speed if you're hilling it often enough.

I would never rely on brakes only though, even in my 4 speed auto I always drop it down for a lengthy descent.

There's two sides to the braking argument. One mate told me use medium pressure on the brakes (coupled with the right gear) constantly than short hard stabs that heat and cool the rotors rapidly.

But I'm still inclined to rely on gearing until I absolutely have to brake with short bursts on the brakes.


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  #1173140 11-Nov-2014 21:32
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yeah I guessed I've figured it out now.

went to google maps the coronet peak road was 3.2kms. the brakes over heated halfway down, so say 2km.

the thing with the manual mode on that cvt is
1) the ratios are horrendously geared for fuel efficiency not engine braking
2) takes around 1 second per downshift, so at 40ks it gives me 6th gear, to get to 2nd gear takes a while.

so I'm not very kind on my new car hmm




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oxnsox
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  #1173148 11-Nov-2014 21:49
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If the vehicle has an Overdrive button then first thing you do when going downhill is OD off, though i suspect being a modern 6 speed that's not an option.

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