2nd Hand Car Trouble - Advice Needed

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Entity

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#171388 15-Apr-2015 23:25

Hi,

I bought a used car (2005 Ford Mondeo, 125 000km) from a dealership about 4months back. Now the radiator has packed up and started to lose water. I had the car towed to my usual mechanic as it wouldn't start and was told the engine needed to be replaced as it has seized (I'm not mechanical and don't understand all the lingo). This would also be a better option then spending time and money fixing up the current engine. The total cost, engine, labour and parts will be between $2500 - $3000. I did not take out an extended warranty when I purchased the vehicle as it didn't seem necessary and it only seems ever cover the parts which are hassle free from my experience.

I have contacted the dealership and the mechanic explained the situation as well to the dealership. The dealership said they would cover about $500 for the radiator repair.

Is this fair or should I take this further with the CGA? Do I have a case?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

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450 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1285235 15-Apr-2015 23:36

Did you stop driving after it overheated? Or did you keep driving until the engine seized? You may not be very mechanical but you should always keep an eye on the temperature gauge.

The dealer has offered to repair the radiator but you can't really expect him to pay for a new engine if you kept driving after it overheated.

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BlakJak

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#1285238 15-Apr-2015 23:50

Did you get an independent mechanical inspection done before purchase? No indications of oil leak or seal type issues? Seizure happens when there isnt oil in moving-part places and overheating is the symptom.

No signature to see here, move along...

nakedmolerat

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#1285243 16-Apr-2015 00:04

When do you find out about the radiator issue?

Do you keep driving despite knowing this problem?

You are expected to know when to stop when it over heat.

dickytim

2514 posts

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#1285264 16-Apr-2015 06:50

I am sorry to say but it seems that you may have been negligent and kept driving even when the temperature raised, either that or let the engine oil get low enough to seize.

4 months is outside of what they are required to cover you for so I believe the $500 for the radiator is a good-will gesture.

I still laugh when a question gets asked like "should I take it to the CGA" - You can't visit an act.

You can call the MTA if they are a member, and you must remember that second hand motor vehicles are covered under their own act, as such there are different definitions for "fit for purpose" etc.

Wade

2225 posts

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#1285283 16-Apr-2015 07:32

it was probably the overflow bottle not the radiator as they have a tendency to split around one of its fixing points, is a $70 part you can fit yourself ironically but a bit late for that now. if you google those mondeos it is one of a very few very common problems with them (trust me i know i used to own one :P )

i would say you have to wear it, if you had stopped the engine as soon as it overheated the engine would most likely not has suffered catastrophic damage so i would image any dealer/seller would easily walk away from any liability

jonathan18

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#1285313 16-Apr-2015 08:59

dickytim: I am sorry to say but it seems that you may have been negligent and kept driving even when the temperature raised, either that or let the engine oil get low enough to seize.

4 months is outside of what they are required to cover you for so I believe the $500 for the radiator is a good-will gesture.

I still laugh when a question gets asked like "should I take it to the CGA" - You can't visit an act.

You can call the MTA if they are a member, and you must remember that second hand motor vehicles are covered under their own act, as such there are different definitions for "fit for purpose" etc.

Sorry to be pedantic here, but the OP didn't state "shoud I take it to the CGA?" but "should I take this further with the CGA?", from which I had assumed was shorthand for "should I persue this case based on my rights under the CGA"? as opposed to the suggested ignorance that the CGA is not a body which a case can be taken to - an unncessary put-down based on a misquote, I reckon.

With the usual proviso that INAL (and I'd be interested in the views of anyone who actually is a lawyer or has substantial experience in this area to provide the OP with accurate advice), as far as I'm aware the CGA makes no statement as to whether a claim should be disallowed simply because four months have passed, just as it deliberately doesn't specify in detail other matters, given the act covers such a wide variety of situations and posibilities.

I'd agree, though, that the OP's case under the CGA will be weakened if his actions contributed to the subsequent "loss" (the engine damage), in which case the offer to only fix the radiator issue may be quite appropriate - however we haven't heard back from them as to the details of this so until then it's a matter of speculation.

I've posted previously on the power of the CGA in a situation where make substantial and numerous repairs (including a new engine) on a s/h Primera we bought from a dealer (and the reason why I'll never elect to buy a car privately unless it's covered by the original manufacturer's warranty); I can't recall the timeframes for the issues we had, but I'm sure the last problem was indeed identified a matter 3-4 months after purchasing the car.

Bung

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#1285324 16-Apr-2015 09:05

If it was just the overflow bottle wouldn't that just put the car in the same situation that older cars used to operate in normally? Before the 70s most cars didn't have an overflow bottle.

I agree that you shouldn't expect to be covered for abusing an engine after it started overheating. That is different from engine damage immediately after a cambelt fails. I don't know why the engine management computer doesn't shut down on overheat or no oil pressure.

Entity

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1285378 16-Apr-2015 09:53

When I noticed something was wrong I did continue to drive a bit further to pull over at a safe spot (Probably not the best choice). The temperature gauge was fine, nothing out of the ordinary. The oil was a bit on the low side but nothing too serious however the water was close on empty and was dripping all over the floor when I pulled over.

Again I don't understand all the jargon but the mechanic (independent) said the temp gauge is not always reliable in these situations, especially when the radiator / overflow bottle / water unit breaks without warning.

I understand situations like these are always very tricky to determine the right course of action and all I want is a win-win situation. I reckon I'll take the dealership up on their offer.

Thanks for the comments and feedback :)

Geese

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#1285427 16-Apr-2015 10:46

Entity: Again I don't understand all the jargon but the mechanic (independent) said the temp gauge is not always reliable in these situations, especially when the radiator / overflow bottle / water unit breaks without warning

That was my experience in my one and only overheating breakdown. The water pump blew the bearings, shaft and pulley out, dumping all the water very quick, the temperature gauge went up very quickly, then 3 times as fast dropped from H to C, I guess as the water was all gone so it was no longer immersed in high temperature water. If you weren't "clockwatching" the temperature gauge at the time (like I was), then its possible to miss the needle getting to H, as at the point steam came out it was dropping back down.

nathan

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#1285432 16-Apr-2015 10:51

one of life's lessons I think

jaymz

1133 posts

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#1286177 17-Apr-2015 11:48

IlDuce:
Entity: Again I don't understand all the jargon but the mechanic (independent) said the temp gauge is not always reliable in these situations, especially when the radiator / overflow bottle / water unit breaks without warning

That was my experience in my one and only overheating breakdown. The water pump blew the bearings, shaft and pulley out, dumping all the water very quick, the temperature gauge went up very quickly, then 3 times as fast dropped from H to C, I guess as the water was all gone so it was no longer immersed in high temperature water. If you weren't "clockwatching" the temperature gauge at the time (like I was), then its possible to miss the needle getting to H, as at the point steam came out it was dropping back down.

Yeah, the sensor relies on the coolant passing over it to provide a reliable reading. When there is no coolant passing over it the temp will actually drop.

If you suspect loss of coolant in your vehicle you should take care to check levels at the start of any journey, during the journey and at the end. Quick repair of the issue is the only safe course of action when you notice a leak of any kind (Coolant, oil, etc)

I suspect that since the OP's oil level was low as well, that this sped up the seizure process as there was not enough oil to help lubricate and cool the engine when the coolant ran out.

ludez

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#1286226 17-Apr-2015 12:50

I would take it further if i were you.4 months and the cars needs 3k of work?

Aredwood

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#1286926 18-Apr-2015 18:38

Bung: If it was just the overflow bottle wouldn't that just put the car in the same situation that older cars used to operate in normally? Before the 70s most cars didn't have an overflow bottle.

I agree that you shouldn't expect to be covered for abusing an engine after it started overheating. That is different from engine damage immediately after a cambelt fails. I don't know why the engine management computer doesn't shut down on overheat or no oil pressure.

Most cars don't have any such fail safe shutdowns due to (car company) policy reasons. Imagine if your car suddenly stops while crossing train tracks or somewhere else equally dangerous. With no way of quickly restarting it?

And it gives me the choice of being able to decide (if a failure happens). Of continuing to my destination and writing off the engine. Or stopping on the side of the road in a safe place and saving the engine.

I only own a cheap car. If im on my way to the airport to catch an important flight. (that I have paid Thousands for) Continuing and writing off the engine would be a no brainier. (If it means that I make the flight). Sure travel insurance might cover me missing the flight. But the flight would have still been missed.

If your car starts to overheat while driving. Immediately turn the heater onto max heat and fan. Heater should run very hot. If it runs cold you have coolant (water) loss from the cooling system. Immediately shutoff the engine. Or decide if you want to risk writing off the engine (and no claim under any warranty). And if it runs hot often the heater can remove enough heat from the engine. To help keep temps in check so you can reach your destination.

On my first car, the electric cooling fans didn't work. So it was always "heater on full" whenever I was driving in rush hour traffic.

And alot of cars now run pressurised overflow / expansion bottles. So 1 of them splitting is like having a radiator hose split.

richms

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#1287007 18-Apr-2015 21:41

I dont see how this is the dealers responsibility. You have an old used car, problems happen with it. Dealers should only have to sort out things that were the case when they sold you the car, not failures that happen due to age after you buy the car.

Richard rich.ms

BTR

1527 posts

Uber Geek

#1287568 20-Apr-2015 10:17

Sorry if it sounds harsh but its not the dealers issue, you bought a car 4 months ago and have driven x amount of KM's in it. Its your responsibility to keep the car maintained.

You would have to be driving for a while without water to seize the engine and the engine would be making a hug he amount of noise as the oil would be so hot it wouldn't be doing its job properly.

Cars oil and waters levels should be checked weekly, you don't have to have any mechanical knowledge to check a dip stick, water tank and have a quick look through the engine bay for leaks.

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