Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


3123 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1665

Subscriber

Topic # 185162 12-Nov-2015 08:59
Send private message

Stuff story

Would love to see the ATR-72's replaced with small jet's like this, hate slow noisy prop flights.







View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
26472 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6027

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1426730 12-Nov-2015 09:05
Send private message

Lias: Stuff story


Would love to see the ATR-72's replaced with small jet's like this, hate slow noisy prop flights.




I'm sure Air NZ would be happy to buy jets if you would commit to paying more for airfares. None can offer CASK figures anywhere close to a turboprop such as the ATR.




12423 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5827

Trusted

  Reply # 1426731 12-Nov-2015 09:08
Send private message

I like the ATRs can see lots more due to their high wing and lower altitude and they are more comfortable




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


26472 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6027

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1426733 12-Nov-2015 09:12
Send private message

Just looking list prices one of those MRJ jets is double the price of an AR72 (US$47 million for the MRJ vs $25 million for an ATR72) and it's safe to say Air NZ would be getting a reasonable discount off list as they will have one of the biggest ATR72 fleets in the world so will become a very important customer. As Air NZ look to replace the Q300's in probably 5 years the ATR42 would be a logical choice for this as well due to the type rating being very similar so I'm sure ATR would love to be get this contract as well.



3924 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 660

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1426745 12-Nov-2015 09:32
Send private message

It surprises me that the ATR42 effectively has a monopoly now that the Q300 has been discontinued. Turboprops have an economic advantage of regional jets in that they can generally break even with fewer bums on seats, and with the current state of the airline industry I would have thought there would be still be high demand for turboprops.



3123 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1665

Subscriber

  Reply # 1426747 12-Nov-2015 09:37
Send private message

I currently pay the same price for Wellington <-> Christchurch seat regardless of whether the flight is on A320's or ATR72's, I can't imagine it's going to change that much if it becomes A320's or MRJ's, but even if it did cost slightly more, I'd pay it for a faster, quieter flight.




Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

 

Thinking about signing up to BigPipe? Get $20 credit with my referral link.


3924 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 660

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1426749 12-Nov-2015 09:39
Send private message

Lias: I currently pay the same price for Wellington <-> Christchurch seat regardless of whether the flight is on A320's or ATR72's, I can't imagine it's going to change that much if it becomes A320's or MRJ's, but even if it did cost slightly more, I'd pay it for a faster, quieter flight.


Have you flown on one of the new ATR72-600? The noise level actually isn't too bad.

26472 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6027

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1426752 12-Nov-2015 09:49
One person supports this post
Send private message

Lias: I currently pay the same price for Wellington <-> Christchurch seat regardless of whether the flight is on A320's or ATR72's, I can't imagine it's going to change that much if it becomes A320's or MRJ's, but even if it did cost slightly more, I'd pay it for a faster, quieter flight.


That's because the CASK figures of a fully loaded A320 vs a fully loaded ATR72 are in the same sort of range.

There isn't the demand to fly greater than 68 seats on the WLG-CHC route on all flights which is why the ATR is used. If this was replaced with jets Air NZ would either be flying A320's that they couldn't even half fill orcutting the number of flights in 1/2 to fill jet services. Something like the MRJ which you're suggesting has considerably higher CASK figures than the ATR or a fully loaded A320, so makes no sense for the type of routes Air NZ fly.

Regional jets such as the Embraer and MRJ fill a niche where low pax numbers need to fly longer routes where turboprops are too slow and it's the reason they're popular in countries such as the US and Aussie. NZ doesn't have the population or routes to support them.

I don't like the ATR either, but I fly enough to understand the economics and reality of the airline world.

26472 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6027

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1426753 12-Nov-2015 09:50
Send private message

alasta:
Lias: I currently pay the same price for Wellington <-> Christchurch seat regardless of whether the flight is on A320's or ATR72's, I can't imagine it's going to change that much if it becomes A320's or MRJ's, but even if it did cost slightly more, I'd pay it for a faster, quieter flight.


Have you flown on one of the new ATR72-600? The noise level actually isn't too bad.


It's still pretty high, and gets pretty annoying on a 1hr50 flight to Dunedin.

Unfortunately noise cancelling headphones like my Bose ones aren't as effectively on turboprops as jets, but at least make it bearable.


2675 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 338

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1426756 12-Nov-2015 09:55
Send private message

sbiddle:
alasta:
Lias: I currently pay the same price for Wellington <-> Christchurch seat regardless of whether the flight is on A320's or ATR72's, I can't imagine it's going to change that much if it becomes A320's or MRJ's, but even if it did cost slightly more, I'd pay it for a faster, quieter flight.


Have you flown on one of the new ATR72-600? The noise level actually isn't too bad.


It's still pretty high, and gets pretty annoying on a 1hr50 flight to Dunedin.

Unfortunately noise cancelling headphones like my Bose ones aren't as effectively on turboprops as jets, but at least make it bearable.



I find the Bose QC25's are pretty good. What model Bose do you have?




My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

2675 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 338

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1426795 12-Nov-2015 11:20
One person supports this post
Send private message

Steve is right. A jet cannot compete with a turboprop over shorter distances. In New Zealand we should be running turboprops on most sectors.

On a side note I think aviation is heading towards a crisis in the turboprop market. Certification requirements have effectively killed the small turbo prop market (and to some extent the jet market). No manufacturer is prepared to take on building a new turboprop aircraft due to the huge costs involved.

We have already seen that in New Zealand with the demise of the B1900. We now have DC3's(!) replacing B1900's due to their grandfather rights.

Even the Caravan and PC12 are not the most efficient aircraft for the purpose. Both have PT6's which were designed in 1960. Any engine that turns the gas path through 180 degrees twice is not going to be the most efficient in 2015.

This does filter into the 50 seat turboprop market. If there is no competition for ATR they can increase their margins. Worldwide land transport is going (or is already) to claw back markets which had been lost to flying.

Cheers, Matt. 




My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.



3123 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1665

Subscriber

  Reply # 1426860 12-Nov-2015 12:54
Send private message

*sigh*

All I want is cheap, fast, quiet transport between cities :-)








Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

 

Thinking about signing up to BigPipe? Get $20 credit with my referral link.


2675 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 338

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1426879 12-Nov-2015 13:21
Send private message

Don't we all!

You could set up an airline.... @sbiddle has been mumbling about doing it. You could be an investor.




My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

BTR

1461 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 427


  Reply # 1426913 12-Nov-2015 13:55
One person supports this post
Send private message

I miss the BAE 146 whisper jets, had my first flight to AKL on one of those as a kid back when Ansett existed. That was when they served meals on national flights as well because I remember having the lamb.

2762 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 445


  Reply # 1426919 12-Nov-2015 14:05
One person supports this post
Send private message

sbiddle: As Air NZ look to replace the Q300's in probably 5 years the ATR42 would be a logical choice for this as well due to the type rating being very similar so I'm sure ATR would love to be get this contract as well.


I doubt they'll buy the ATR 42? 

 

Have you flown on one of the new ATR72-600? The noise level actually isn't too bad.

 



It's still pretty high, and gets pretty annoying on a 1hr50 flight to Dunedin.


It depends where you sit. The ATR can be quieter than the A320.

My ANR headset works pretty well on the ATR or A320




Sony Xperia X running Sailfish
Jolla C
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


2762 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 445


  Reply # 1426921 12-Nov-2015 14:12
One person supports this post
Send private message

Lias: Stuff story

Would love to see the ATR-72's replaced with small jet's like this, hate slow noisy prop flights.


On most routes the turbo props operate on, the time saving over a jet is almost non existent, certainly not worth the extra cost.

As for being noisy the ATR particularly is generally as quite as a jet.




Sony Xperia X running Sailfish
Jolla C
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34


Enable doubles fibre broadband speeds for its most popular wholesale service in Christchurch
Posted 2-Jun-2018 20:07


All or Nothing: New Zealand All Blacks arrives on Amazon Prime Video
Posted 2-Jun-2018 16:21


Innovation Grant, High Tech Awards and new USA office for Kiwi tech company SwipedOn
Posted 1-Jun-2018 20:54


Commerce Commission warns Apple for misleading consumers about their rights
Posted 30-May-2018 13:15


IBM leads Call for Code to use cloud, data, AI, blockchain for natural disaster relief
Posted 25-May-2018 14:12


New FUJIFILM X-T100 aims to do better job than smartphones
Posted 24-May-2018 20:17


Stuff takes 100% ownership of Stuff Fibre
Posted 24-May-2018 19:41



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.