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325 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 189304 23-Dec-2015 13:31
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Hi,

I recently had an unpleasant experience with a Used Car Dealer; when I researched the VIN number of the car on the manufacturer's database I discovered it had been built a year before what was displayed on the CIN (and what was advertised).

I told the dealer that we weren't interested in that particular vehicle any more because we were looking for a later model vehicle, and requested our deposit be returned. The dealer threatened me and my family with physical violence (amongst other threats) and refused to return the deposit. He also claimed that he didn't have to display the year of manufacture on the CIN, nor in any advertisement.

I researched the Year of Manufacture requirement on a CIN online and found some conflicting information:

Consumer says: "The year in which the vehicle was manufactured or the manufacturer’s designated “model year” or the year of first registration (for motor vehicles registered before 1 January 2007). For vehicles registered after 1 January 2007: the year of first registration anywhere in the world." https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/car-buyers-rights

The Government says two things are required:
1. the vehicle year
2. the year of first registration. This is the year that the vehicle was first registered for use.
http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/motor-vehicles/before-you-buy-a-motor-vehicle/consumer-information-notice-cin

This information is contradictory.

Was I right asking for my deposit back? I was certainly taken aback to discover that the vehicle was a year older than advertised.



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  Reply # 1455976 23-Dec-2015 13:40
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The difference between say example 2009 and 2010 manufactured car is quite often nothing, Vehicles have life cycles and the same car could come off a production line for a number of years with no changes



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1455978 23-Dec-2015 13:45
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Yes, but in this particular case there were differences. The particular car I am referring to was literally one of the first of a new model off the production line and this model year had some notorious issues with the braking electronics that cost the manufacturer a lot to resolve. 
Anyway, my query is regarding the misleading nature of the dealer's advertising. It was a year older than advertised and displayed on the CIN.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1455979 23-Dec-2015 13:46
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I don't believe the information is contradicory. The government info does not say it must include the year of manufacture, just the vehicle year. Many (most?) automotive markets denote a vehicle by Model Year, rather than Manufacture Year - some models on sale now are MY2016, despite being manufactured in 2015. They have the specifications etc for the 2016 model. Thus, if you are buying in the US for example, most new cars purchased in recent weeks or even months would be deemed a 2016 vehicle. New Zealand tends more towards the year of first registration for most references, which again can differ from the year of manufacture or, in some rare cases, the model year (you can potentially have, for example, a car manufactured in late 2014 as a 2015 model year, but not registered until early 2016).

I don't see any issue with having asked for a deposit back, unless there was some sort of non-refundable agreement (which in my experience is rare in a vehicle sale until the sale is final), though. I'm also unsure how having a different year mattered, unless it was in fact a different model year - and thus potentially affects the vehicle spec/features etc.




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  Reply # 1455981 23-Dec-2015 13:46
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Well.. Sounds like you have been dealing with arrow toys.

The cars model year is the shape/design etc. 

You could go buy a 2007 shape golf and it most likely would have been made in 2006. But your buying that years shape.
I think you might be a little too picky here.


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  Reply # 1455986 23-Dec-2015 13:53
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What year was the vehicle you were considering?




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1456009 23-Dec-2015 14:08
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MikeB4: What year was the vehicle you were considering?

It was manufactured in April 2005 and advertised/CIN information stated it was manufactured in 2006.

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  Reply # 1456011 23-Dec-2015 14:20
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Being prior 2007 they can display either of three options year of manufacture, the model year or the year of first registration. So it would seem the CIN complied

However as he had threatened you that is more than valid reason to tell him to shove the deal.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1456013 23-Dec-2015 14:27
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I am very knowledgeable about cars and do a lot of research before making a purchase. For this particular model car there were literally thousands of changes made to the components, trim, software, specifications and design between the two years of manufacture. These days most manufacturers are constantly changing these things to address issues and improve the built product. If the manufacturer provides you with all the details on their VIN database to check the details shouldn't you use this to verify the accuracy of the seller's claims? Buyer beware etc.
Most of the responses to my concerns here seem to indicate that, just because you can't externally see any difference between two cars, they are the same, and you would be perfectly happy to be sold a car a year older than advertised. OK maybe I'm too picky, but I expect to be told the truth, not mislead, and certainly not be physically threatened by the seller for making an informed decision. When you buy a used appliance, for example, wouldn't you check that the serial number matched the year of manufacture to ensure you aren't being ripped off/duped/paying a fair price?


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  Reply # 1456022 23-Dec-2015 14:37
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Our NZ new "2010" Kia Sportage was built late 2009. 2010 was the year the new shape came out so it's a difficult one.

For an second hand import I would expect to see the manufacture date as the overseas registration is irrelevant.

Bee

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1456028 23-Dec-2015 14:49
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I think you have a case here except for 2 things:

Perhaps you should have done all research BEFORE putting down a deposit?  did you look at the car or test drive at least before paying the deposit?

A little known fact: under NZ contract laws deposits are generally NON REFUNDABLE unless otherwise stated in the contract.  so legally at least the seller isn't really obliged to give the deposit back, but there are ethical and reputation issues here as well...  It does seem like you were mislead to some extent, So if they value their reputation they should refund the deposit...

Of course anyone that claims to be a professional and then displays violent or threatening behavior is probably not someone anyone should deal with at all!

edited for typos..



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1456038 23-Dec-2015 15:15
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Bee: I think you have a case here except for 2 things:

Perhaps you should have done all research BEFORE putting down a deposit?  did you look at the car or test drive at least before paying the deposit?

A little known fact: under NZ contract laws deposits are generally NON REFUNDABLE unless otherwise stated in the contract.  so legally at least the seller isn't really obliged to give the deposit back, but there are ethical and reputation issues here as well...  It does seem like you were mislead to some extent, So if they value their reputation they should refund the deposit...

Of course anyone that claims to be a professional and then display violent or threatening behavior is probably not someone anyone should deal with at all!

edited for typos..


Yes, I took it for test drive before paying a deposit. I didn't want such a low mileage example being snapped-up by someone else having just been gazumped a couple of days earlier on a another vehicle. I had it AA inspected too, the inspection reported noted that the dealer wouldn't permit the inspector to move the vehicle onto flat ground to view the underside of the car.
My deposit 'contract' noted that purchase of the car was subject to AA report and VIN check. The VIN check is what caused me to break the 'contract'. I never share the results of either VIN check or AA report with the dealer.




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  Reply # 1456051 23-Dec-2015 15:27
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tstone:
Bee: I think you have a case here except for 2 things:

Perhaps you should have done all research BEFORE putting down a deposit?  did you look at the car or test drive at least before paying the deposit?

A little known fact: under NZ contract laws deposits are generally NON REFUNDABLE unless otherwise stated in the contract.  so legally at least the seller isn't really obliged to give the deposit back, but there are ethical and reputation issues here as well...  It does seem like you were mislead to some extent, So if they value their reputation they should refund the deposit...

Of course anyone that claims to be a professional and then display violent or threatening behavior is probably not someone anyone should deal with at all!

edited for typos..


Yes, I took it for test drive before paying a deposit. I didn't want such a low mileage example being snapped-up by someone else having just been gazumped a couple of days earlier on a another vehicle. I had it AA inspected too, the inspection reported noted that the dealer wouldn't permit the inspector to move the vehicle onto flat ground to view the underside of the car.
My deposit 'contract' noted that purchase of the car was subject to AA report and VIN check. The VIN check is what caused me to break the 'contract'. I never share the results of either VIN check or AA report with the dealer.





I am no lawyer but the condition you had on the VIN maybe an out.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1456143 23-Dec-2015 16:42
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tstone: I had it AA inspected too, the inspection reported noted that the dealer wouldn't permit the inspector to move the vehicle onto flat ground to view the underside of the car.
My deposit 'contract' noted that purchase of the car was subject to AA report and VIN check. The VIN check is what caused me to break the 'contract'. I never share the results of either VIN check or AA report with the dealer.


An AA report that couldn't cover the underside would be worthless IMHO.

The CIN form states "Model Year" with a note that this could be manufacture OR model OR registratrion. Uness they explicitly wrote in manufactured it would appear that you've got the right model. I don't know about Golf's but my car has production date on the VIN plate. It is a 2008 made in Oct 2007.

VIN check? I'm not sure how you could use that to get out of the deal. "It has too many 4s in it."

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  Reply # 1456239 23-Dec-2015 19:38
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You are obviously happy enough with the car to put down a deposit, is it really a deal breaker or is this just an avenue to get our of a case of buyer remorse?

It's a ten year old car, recalls or warranty work will have already been resolved so in my eyes that argument becomes a moot point?

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  Reply # 1459140 30-Dec-2015 16:48
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why don't you share the results with the dealer ?


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