FIAT / Chrysler caught cheating on emissions.....

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › FIAT / Chrysler caught cheating on emissions.....

Linuxluver

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#207767 13-Jan-2017 08:18

Looks like the only way to have "clean diesel" is to cheat on the emissions reporting in the car.

VW took a multi-billion dollar hit last year because it was cheating on diesel emissions. VW now says it will stop making non-truck diesel vehicles completely.

Looks like FIAT/Chrysler's has also been cheating rather than complying with emissions regulations.

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#1702392 13-Jan-2017 08:27

Interesting call from VW.
I wonder what the amaroks troubled 2.0L 4 cylinder power plant will be replaced with?
We all know when making good power from a small displacement engine you get higher emissions and a NOX.
VW couldn't prevent it so they cheated it. The problem is that the small displacement turbo diesel engine running a tonne of boost uses next to no fuel. That was the last selling point of a VW. So going back to petrol i wonder how it will affect their business.

We will most likely see the rest of the European car manufactures exposed for similar deceitful devices as they all work off the same base principals. Small displacement turbo diesel. Maybe the laws of physics and chemistry dont allow for it.

sbiddle

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#1702398 13-Jan-2017 08:39

My thoughts at the time was that it was likely everybody was cheating. It seems this is the case.

Inphinity

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#1702445 13-Jan-2017 09:20

Linuxluver:VW now says it will stop making non-truck diesel vehicles completely.

Curious for a source on this, I have only seen official comment that they will cease their diesel push in the US, rather than a complete global pull out of the small diesel field.

Linuxluver

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#1702446 13-Jan-2017 09:22

TimA:

Interesting call from VW.
I wonder what the amaroks troubled 2.0L 4 cylinder power plant will be replaced with?
We all know when making good power from a small displacement engine you get higher emissions and a NOX.
VW couldn't prevent it so they cheated it. The problem is that the small displacement turbo diesel engine running a tonne of boost uses next to no fuel. That was the last selling point of a VW. So going back to petrol i wonder how it will affect their business.

We will most likely see the rest of the European car manufactures exposed for similar deceitful devices as they all work off the same base principals. Small displacement turbo diesel. Maybe the laws of physics and chemistry dont allow for it.

VW are going electric. The new emissions requirements that take effect in Europe in 2020 are forcing most manufacturers to go to electric cars as they can't comply with the standards with petrol....and they already can't comply with the current standards with diesel.

This isn't just about fuel economy. Climate change is a huge factor. But air quality is also huge. Paris has already had to kick half of all cars off the roads on days when the pollution index gets too high. Getting rid of diesel is a great, first step to lowering toxic and carcinogenic particulates in the air of large cities. Getting rid of petrol, too, will make it even better as time goes on.

These three factors (Climate change / regulatory emissions standards and air quality) are going to kill fossil fuels in Europe and China...at the very least.

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Jaxson

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#1702448 13-Jan-2017 09:26

I actually thought this was quite well known. There is a whole industry around aftermarket car chips, which whilst being a bit more aggressively tuned overall, often make reference to addressing known performance dips around the set emissions test criteria areas.

From memory that's exactly what VW was doing, purposely detuning their vehicles around the emissions test rpm range, and then beefing it up outside of this, or even worse, actively detecting that a test is being run and adjusting to a completely different safe tuning for that period.

I think it's kinda sad that so many are still shocked at big companies doing dodgy stuff to make more money...

Linuxluver

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#1702455 13-Jan-2017 09:36

Inphinity:

Linuxluver:VW now says it will stop making non-truck diesel vehicles completely.

Curious for a source on this, I have only seen official comment that they will cease their diesel push in the US, rather than a complete global pull out of the small diesel field.

This is 7 months old, but high on the list in a quick Google of "VW diesel future". As you say, no more diesel in North America from VW, but the comments reported here go beyond that.

Since then, several countries in Europe (Norway, Germany) have said they will or are considering banning the sale of fossil-fuel cars after 2030.

It's only a matter of time. Those who get ahead of this curve will stand a better chance of staying ahead.

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richms

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#1702456 13-Jan-2017 09:39

Im shocked that people dont expect them to do this. If you tell them they have to meet certain criteria then they will design it to meet that. Blame the people that set the tests up, if it was supposed to be clean at all revs and power outputs then they should have been testing for that.

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jpoc

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#1703311 14-Jan-2017 22:18

TimA:

...

We all know when making good power from a small displacement engine you get higher emissions and a NOX.
VW couldn't prevent it so they cheated it.

...

I do not think that is correct.

I thought that the whole point was that VW could prevent the high emissions but only at a cost.

The cost was in higher fuel consumption and higher service costs. That cost was deemed to be unacceptable.

That was why they ran the engines in 'real world' or 'lab test' modes depending on circumstances.

dejadeadnz

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#1703318 14-Jan-2017 22:35

Linuxluver:

Looks like the only way to have "clean diesel" is to cheat on the emissions reporting in the car.

Not at all. These companies just choose not use available technologies.

Diesel cars emit up to four times more toxic pollution than a bus, data reveals

blakamin

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#1703322 14-Jan-2017 22:39

Seriously? When has stated fuel economy/emissions ever been the same in real world?

It's been BS ever since someone came up with the words "fuel economy".

Labs produce what car companies want govts to hear.

If you thought otherwise, you have your head in the sand.

Edited to please the lawyers... ;p

dejadeadnz

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#1703323 14-Jan-2017 22:40

Err, we are talking about emissions of pollutants here.

blakamin

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#1703325 14-Jan-2017 22:46

Unfortunately it's the same with EV

Until we stop burning coal to power your car, it'll still have an impact.

What goes in to mining/extraction of lithium?

What are its after-effects?

dejadeadnz

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#1703326 14-Jan-2017 22:50

But even the "cheating" on fuel economy isn't the slightest bit comparable to this. My car's fuel economy isn't anywhere near to what was advertised, albeit qualified with qualifiers probably 250 words+ long. But the fuel economy sure as heck is not 3 or tens of times worse than advertised. This is the situation with the noxious emissions. Big, big difference.

blakamin

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#1703328 14-Jan-2017 22:54

dejadeadnz:

But even the "cheating" on fuel economy isn't the slightest bit comparable to this. My car's fuel economy isn't anywhere near to what was advertised, albeit qualified with qualifiers probably 250 words+ long. But the fuel economy sure as heck is not 3 or tens of times worse than advertised. This is the situation with the noxious emissions. Big, big difference.

Here's a cool thing for y'all EV fans...

A closed power plant.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-02/port-augusta-residents-angered-by-fly-ash-plume/8157888

You can look up the rest of the fail that's happened here... It's a lot worse than cars.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/warning-high-winds-will-whip-up-fly-ash-at-port-augusta-power-station-forcing-residents-to-stay-inside/news-story/8f624c81659218d41aa046df1303d544?nk=7771549e5ab16f1891c863ae83d4936d-1484387722

Remember this is what powers everything... including EV's... in most places.

blakamin

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#1703329 14-Jan-2017 23:13

I'm out... everyone seems to think that EV solves all the the problems, when they ignore the generation of the "E".

Also people seem to think car companies, and companies in general aren't full of sh*te.

Why are people so shocked when this happens?

Must be my cynicism.

Have fun all :D

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