Fake Philips Xenon and refusal to refund?

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binarybrother

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#215444 27-Jun-2017 19:51

So purchased a couple of Philips D2S 'genuine Philips' car head light xenon bulbs off Trademe last last week. Plenty of other traders selling them although not trying to advertise them as genuine Philips. Trader has good level of feedback and doesn't look to be one of the small time traders so I buy. Bulbs arrive today in plain cardboard boxes, no branding, hmmm this doesn't look right, not the Philips box I was expecting.

So I do some Googling since there are heaps of fakes out there. Philips site pretty clear, box has code on it so you can check it's genuine. Images online showing fake vs real would seem to indicate they are knock offs. So I email the seller and tell him I don't think they are authentic and would like a refund. Short sharp email back, they are genuine 'in private label boxes', been selling them for 10 years. I ring another retailer who sells them and confirm theirs come in Philips boxes with scratch off section and code beneath.

So I ring him. He's pretty defensive, sold heaps of them, never had a problem, they are genuine, trust him they are good. I'm keeping very calm, point out I only have his word and I don't know him. Point out there's lots of web sites showing how to spot fakes and his ones look to fit those decriptions. I ask him again and say I would like a refund and will get them straight back to him. Conversation goes no where but he finally talks about re-stocking fee, courier costs and trademe costs, he's more agitated and annoyed I'd question they aren't genuine.

I leave it there as conversation going no where and ask him to email me back details of the re-stocking fee. Not willing to pay that but no point continuing to argue at that point.

So my thoughts at this stage are:

1) Ring him back once he's cooled down to discuss again with request for refund without 'additional costs'

2) Failing that I think I'm down to lodging a complaint with Trademe about selling counterfeit goods

3) 'Name and shame' and other retaliatory threats which really won't achieve what I'm after, a refund

Any other thoughts?

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#1807878 27-Jun-2017 20:18

Ring him back, be simple and to the point.

At this point, he's making a rather large mess for himself.

If he's been in action for 10 years, he's possibly an actual retailer, in which case you could report him..

To the Commerce Commission for breaching the Fair Trading Act for misleading sales.
As well as breaching the Consumer Guarantees act for items not matching their description.
As well as (of course) breaching Trademe's rules of sale.

So .. either he pays up, or you can bring a world of sh1t upon him rather quickly.

The relevant authorities take a dim view (pun intended) of fake electrical goods.

tardtasticx

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#1807883 27-Jun-2017 20:39

As above. If these lights are fake they're probably not meeting the applicable compliance requirements and wouldn't be suitable for sale. Not to mention if they are fake that's blatantly illegal and I'm sure Philips wouldn't be too impressed either. It's not threatening if you tell him this. It's just stating facts that if these are fake that's a serious issue.

Aredwood

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#1807928 27-Jun-2017 21:07

Definitely report to trademe. My understanding is that they take a hard line against fake items now.

Bung

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#1807931 27-Jun-2017 21:13

Have you compared the bulb with the various fake/genuine examples? There do seem to be retail packs and bulk plain packs out there. It would seem to me that faking the packaging would be the easiest step in the chain.

mattwnz

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#1807932 27-Jun-2017 21:17

You should contact Philips NZ to see what they say, as they should want to protect their brand.

binarybrother

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#1807936 27-Jun-2017 21:44

Tried to get hold of Philips today but couldn't so will try again tomorrow. I haven't been able to find refernce to retail vs plain packs. Photos of fake vs real would seem to point to it being a fake. Some aspects look real but others not. Thats why Philips have packaging with scratch off bit with code to check. This guy might be getting sold what he thinks is real from his supplier, how would he know?

I shouldn't have to only rely on his word it genuine...

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Bung

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#1807946 27-Jun-2017 22:17

I have no idea whether he is supplying the genuine article or not but I bet that car manufacturers do not get their supply of bulbs in pretty boxes with scratch off panels. AFAIK the trend is now for LED headlights so it could be likely that there is a surplus of HID intended for new vehicles.

I would look at the bulb and try to find any aspect that identifies fakeness rather than trying to find a genuine example that is identical.

Batman

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#1807957 27-Jun-2017 22:53

I don't know how much money you stand to lose, but just give him a simple final warning, in direct response to his suggestions.

Eg if he stated he doesn't want to take it back just say

Ok thanks for your email, I will check the bulb with Philips NZ and forward them the information you have given me and take it from there. Thanks very much for your help.

THen do what you need to do.

Goosey

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#1808001 28-Jun-2017 08:10

As someone else mentioned, this guy could be real and selling a real product.

It might be factory repacks he is selling / non branded i.e. made to same spec as the branded product but not with said branding or associated fancy packaging.

1eStar

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#1808005 28-Jun-2017 08:18

Do they work in your headlights? If yes, drive at night. If they don't, don't.

smalltrader

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#1808011 28-Jun-2017 08:30

This would not help you in your current situation but may help in the future.

For years, I have been buying bulbs from https://www.powerbulbs.com/ .

They have excellent selection of genuine bulbs and free shipping. I always get them within one week of order and landed for cheaper (sometimes a lot cheaper) than anywhere I can get in NZ. They also have a lot of the latest bulbs not available in NZ as well and Powerbulbs is a partner of major manufacturers such as OSRAM, Phillips ..etc

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Dairyxox

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#1808013 28-Jun-2017 08:38

Cmon, show us some photos, and a link to the websites that identify the fakes.

Would make this thread 10x better.

Coil

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#1808019 28-Jun-2017 08:57

Goosey:

As someone else mentioned, this guy could be real and selling a real product.

It might be factory repacks he is selling / non branded i.e. made to same spec as the branded product but not with said branding or associated fancy packaging.

I think from what the OP has said Phillips has identified many cases of fake products and has taken steps to prevent that. They would not undo their hard work in any circumstance.
I would be giving this trader the stern word. Get your money back then report to trademe anyway.
I would not fit an aftermarket fake Xenon bulb to your car. They are extremely dangerous and a fire hazard, They are also very bad for oncoming drivers who get blinded by these if they are not on the correct angle.
Dont put xenon bulbs in a car that did not come with them from factory. You might as well be looking at a laser.

Coil

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#1808023 28-Jun-2017 09:00

Bung: I have no idea whether he is supplying the genuine article or not but I bet that car manufacturers do not get their supply of bulbs in pretty boxes with scratch off panels. AFAIK the trend is now for LED headlights so it could be likely that there is a surplus of HID intended for new vehicles.

I would look at the bulb and try to find any aspect that identifies fakeness rather than trying to find a genuine example that is identical.

HID's or Xenon bulbs are still in most european cars, only the top of the line fully optioned RS6's and alike have the LED bulbs standard now.
The car manufacture has the bulbs made by Bosch or who ever and they put it in their own packaging.
The bulb is considering a genuine part so its covered by the car dealer and brand but not the products manufacture.

https://www.driven2automotive.com/blog/fighting-fake-hid-bulbs-the-osram-trust-program/

binarybrother

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#1808071 28-Jun-2017 09:39

Here’s how Philips tell you to check, but based on retail packaging version. Philips may well sell bulk packaging that is non branded but Google wasn’t very helpful on that topic.

http://www.chk.philips.com/gb_en/

So you can google ‘how to tell fake Philips Xenon D2S’ and there’s lots of pages/images. Spot welds around base is the obvious part which does seem to indicate they are fake.

I don’t want to put them in my car to ‘try them out’ as I’m sure they will work and don’t want to have an argument with the seller about returning a used product. If they are fake then I’d expect them not to last as long. It’s an existing factory Xenon car and one of my current bulbs has stopped working. It’s got Philips ones in today which I’ve compared to the new ones I got and there are differences. The ones I’ve purchased are not the really obvious fakes the Internet shows but there’s enough doubt in my mind after spending a hour or two looking on the Internet and examining the new bulbs.

My situation is I want genuine. I’ve been sold genuine but have no way to verify that other than take the sellers word and with the level of fake ones out there think I’m entitled to question their authenticity. I think I believe that the seller believes they are genuine. But doesn't mean they are.

$140 for the pair so it's not a lot of money. Somewhat surprised how resistant he is to refunding to rectify the situation.

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