France set to ban sale of all new internal-combustion cars by 2040

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › France set to ban sale of all new internal-combustion cars by 2040

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#216672 7-Jul-2017 11:23

Bold move by France...

http://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/france-set-to-ban-sale-of-all-new-internal-combustion-cars-by-2040

The story above also reference the story about Volvo committing to an electric vehicle future, with 5 fully EV models to be launched between 2019 - 2021

http://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/volvo-cars-to-be-electrified-top-to-bottom-by-2019

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Mad Scientist
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#1814298 7-Jul-2017 11:25

I thought the Netherlands has already banned them from 2025.

frankv

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#1814323 7-Jul-2017 11:59

Batman:

I thought the Netherlands has already banned them from 2025.

Norway.

jpoc

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#1814448 7-Jul-2017 14:14

frankv:

Batman:

I thought the Netherlands has already banned them from 2025.

Norway.

Actually, it is both.

MikeAqua

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#1814456 7-Jul-2017 14:30

I think that's a very reasonable target for cars and urban heavy vehicles.

By 2040 battery technology should be very much improved from a charge time or battery life perspective. If not then a superior technology will have displaced it.

Heavy road transport could be difficult by then. But who knows. Maybe we will have small highly safe reactors reactors of some kind or a very different approach to moving freight long haul. 23 years is a long time.

From a climate change perspective it will be all done bar the shouting by then.

Norway has always been a very friendly market for EVs. They have for ages had a massive tax on the initial purchase price of ICEs (from memory about $20k NZ). Originally introduced to protect a domestic EV manufacturing industry. Last year Kill Him on RadioNZ interviewed a visiting expert from Noway on this. Interesting interview. Norway is almost 100% hydro generation.

Netherlanders will need JetSkis by 2040 not cars ...

Mike

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#1814476 7-Jul-2017 14:56

Its a lovely promise, but as with anything from politicians, if its more than two terms away, its pie in the sky. Its like our govt has promised a pest-free NZ by 2050 (while slashing DOC funding). Its so far away, they get to make pretty promises, and say "look we're doing something!", and then not do anything.

Geektastic

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#1815710 7-Jul-2017 23:29

NZ has much further to go than France despite the huge population in France that need to change cars.

I read an article about electric cars and I doubt 10% of the models they discussed are even sold here. We'll need a lot more charging infrastructure that's for sure. And cars with much greater range than many have now.

Also, there will be a lot of scrapped petrol and diesel cars looking for a home too I suppose.

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mattwnz

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#1815743 8-Jul-2017 00:39

BlueShift:

Its a lovely promise, but as with anything from politicians, if its more than two terms away, its pie in the sky. Its like our govt has promised a pest-free NZ by 2050 (while slashing DOC funding). Its so far away, they get to make pretty promises, and say "look we're doing something!", and then not do anything.

Governments should never be allowed to promise something that far out, because the odds are they won't be in power at that stage, nor will the actual politicians that brought in the policy. National have done the same thing with raising the eligibility of Super So that supposedly stops any other government from changing it further down the track.

jarledb

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#1815757 8-Jul-2017 07:14

MikeAqua:

Norway has always been a very friendly market for EVs. They have for ages had a massive tax on the initial purchase price of ICEs (from memory about $20k NZ). Originally introduced to protect a domestic EV manufacturing industry.

Sorry, thats just not accurate. Norways EV industry was 1 company with few employees (my wife was one of them). The tax on motor vehicles was high long before Think (the EV company) came around. That company has been bankrupt since 2011.

The import tax on cars in Norway used to be based on engine size (volume/horse power), but is now based on CO2 emissions. Buying a car in Norway, you sometimes have to pay as much in taxes to get the car on the road as the car itself actually cost.

That has meant that both EVs and hybrids are very affordable (comparatively), since they are not taxed the same way. At the moment EVs enjoy zero tax (exempt from both GST and import tax), low RUC, free parking in the cities together with free charging, low or zero toll road charges and access to the public transport lanes etc.

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tdgeek

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#1815766 8-Jul-2017 09:16

Geektastic:

NZ has much further to go than France despite the huge population in France that need to change cars.

I read an article about electric cars and I doubt 10% of the models they discussed are even sold here. We'll need a lot more charging infrastructure that's for sure. And cars with much greater range than many have now.

Also, there will be a lot of scrapped petrol and diesel cars looking for a home too I suppose.

1. Sell them here, not hard

2. We already have charging terminals, add more, also not hard.

3. See 2.

NZ needs to look at adding more renewable generation, as and where feasible. Support solar. Review low user power company rates, they do the opposite to what was intended. Imagine if every house had solar, every consumer car was EV. Household appliances were as green as they can be. Houses were all fully insulated.

Now, all this costs the consumers, but with lower power prices, using their own renewables, and Govt support by way of subsidy, interest free upgrade loans with a long term payback option, its all there IMHO

jpoc

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#1815784 8-Jul-2017 11:03

If the guys behind the recent RethinkX report are right, by 2040 all of this will be moot. They predict that by 2030, it will be game over for the internal combustion engine in passenger vehicles. That is not game over for sales, it is game over for use. Game over for sales will come many years sooner.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585c3439be65942f022bbf9b/t/591a2e4be6f2e1c13df930c5/1494888038959/RethinkX+Report_051517.pdf?pdf=RethinkingTransportation

openmedia

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#1815852 8-Jul-2017 13:19

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Bold move by France...

http://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/france-set-to-ban-sale-of-all-new-internal-combustion-cars-by-2040

The story above also reference the story about Volvo committing to an electric vehicle future, with 5 fully EV models to be launched between 2019 - 2021

http://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/volvo-cars-to-be-electrified-top-to-bottom-by-2019

Great idea but to late. I'd like to see NZ bring this in by 2020

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

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smalltrader

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#1815973 8-Jul-2017 18:04

jpoc:

If the guys behind the recent RethinkX report are right, by 2040 all of this will be moot. They predict that by 2030, it will be game over for the internal combustion engine in passenger vehicles. That is not game over for sales, it is game over for use. Game over for sales will come many years sooner.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585c3439be65942f022bbf9b/t/591a2e4be6f2e1c13df930c5/1494888038959/RethinkX+Report_051517.pdf?pdf=RethinkingTransportation

I am not disagreeing that ultimately EV will take over ICE when everything is at the right price points but it will be a long long time before the electricity generation infrastructure is able to cope with the charging requirements. Good luck to France for building more nuclear power plant, if you can call that green ...

As for "Transport as a Service", the author completely misses the point that for a lot of people, a car is much more than getting to get from A to B. Car ownership is something to be cherished just like house ownership. A sense of belongings and the pleasure of driving a pride and joy. If TaaS is a reality, the world might as well move to state ownership pf housing and everyone simply rent ala "housing as a service". I am sorry as I just can't see HaaS happens as human like a patch of his or her own.

jpoc

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#1816005 8-Jul-2017 19:26

smalltrader:

jpoc:

If the guys behind the recent RethinkX report are right, by 2040 all of this will be moot. They predict that by 2030, it will be game over for the internal combustion engine in passenger vehicles. That is not game over for sales, it is game over for use. Game over for sales will come many years sooner.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585c3439be65942f022bbf9b/t/591a2e4be6f2e1c13df930c5/1494888038959/RethinkX+Report_051517.pdf?pdf=RethinkingTransportation

I am not disagreeing that ultimately EV will take over ICE when everything is at the right price points but it will be a long long time before the electricity generation infrastructure is able to cope with the charging requirements. Good luck to France for building more nuclear power plant, if you can call that green ...

As for "Transport as a Service", the author completely misses the point that for a lot of people, a car is much more than getting to get from A to B. Car ownership is something to be cherished just like house ownership. A sense of belongings and the pleasure of driving a pride and joy. If TaaS is a reality, the world might as well move to state ownership pf housing and everyone simply rent ala "housing as a service". I am sorry as I just can't see HaaS happens as human like a patch of his or her own.

Congratulations, please take my vote for most pathetic non-sequitur of the year. You might even be better at this than Trump. You should probably try to work "dancing Cossacks" into the idea as well.

Had you actually read the report you might have noticed the expected cost savings for an average family when they ditch their two cars and go for TaaS. Enough money to fund a flash holiday, pay the kids college bills or remodel the kitchen or the bathroom. Every year. For ever. Of course, not every family runs two nearly new cars but the less wealthy will be even more compelled to switch. When a repair bill, WoF and rego come around, why would you pay for them when using TaaS will halve your spend? Actually, once the fuel tank needs a refill, it will be cheaper to make the switch.

The authors correctly note that those cost savings will mark the end of routine individual car ownership and driving. Driving will become like horse riding. Something done by rich people as a hobby largely on private land because access to public roads for manually driven cars will be reduced to one or two days in the year.

As for the electricity, we could close that loss making Aluminium smelter and have enough spare power for an all electric fleet. As for building charging infrastructure, that is a non-issue for TaaS as the need for charging points is slashed. With TaaS, most individual vehicles will never need to visit a charging station. They will get their power by docking with other TaaS vehicles that are going in the same direction and which have spare charge.

tdgeek

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#1816037 8-Jul-2017 21:43

openmedia:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Bold move by France...

http://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/france-set-to-ban-sale-of-all-new-internal-combustion-cars-by-2040

The story above also reference the story about Volvo committing to an electric vehicle future, with 5 fully EV models to be launched between 2019 - 2021

http://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/volvo-cars-to-be-electrified-top-to-bottom-by-2019

Great idea but to late. I'd like to see NZ bring this in by 2020

NZ??? We have 80% renewable energy but it will be 2050 to be 100%. We are useless.

tdgeek

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#1816041 8-Jul-2017 21:50

smalltrader:

jpoc:

If the guys behind the recent RethinkX report are right, by 2040 all of this will be moot. They predict that by 2030, it will be game over for the internal combustion engine in passenger vehicles. That is not game over for sales, it is game over for use. Game over for sales will come many years sooner.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585c3439be65942f022bbf9b/t/591a2e4be6f2e1c13df930c5/1494888038959/RethinkX+Report_051517.pdf?pdf=RethinkingTransportation

I am not disagreeing that ultimately EV will take over ICE when everything is at the right price points but it will be a long long time before the electricity generation infrastructure is able to cope with the charging requirements. Good luck to France for building more nuclear power plant, if you can call that green ...

As for "Transport as a Service", the author completely misses the point that for a lot of people, a car is much more than getting to get from A to B. Car ownership is something to be cherished just like house ownership. A sense of belongings and the pleasure of driving a pride and joy. If TaaS is a reality, the world might as well move to state ownership pf housing and everyone simply rent ala "housing as a service". I am sorry as I just can't see HaaS happens as human like a patch of his or her own.

Weird.

1. Charging is here and expanding. We are 80% renewable,EV will dig into that, but smart use of what we have in a small population means more renewable is there.

2. You might, when I get my Viper RT10 I might, but not everyone by a very long way sees a car as cherished. For those that do, and for motorsport, ICE will be here. It might cost you more, but you can cherish away, as others will do.

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