Nissan Note e-Power Hybrid 2017: Your news and views please

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frednz

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#225605 26-Nov-2017 11:03

I would be interested to hear your comments on what you see as the advantages and disadvantages of the Nissan Note e-Power Hybrid vehicle.

This hybrid vehicle is unlike the “usual” hybrid EV in that there is no plug-in charging, and the 40 litre petrol engine is used solely as a generator to charge up a small 1.5 kWh battery. This battery pack is only about one-twentieth (1/20th) the size of the battery in the Nissan Leaf.

The main thing I like about the Note e-Power is that it does all its driving using its small electric motor so it’s a good alternative for people who want to experience driving a vehicle using solely an electric motor without having to go through the “range anxiety” associated with a short-range pure electric EV.

The Note e-Power petrol motor is similar in principle to the petrol range extender motor used in the BMW i3, but the i3 petrol motor has a capacity of only 9 litres of petrol and it charges up the battery to give an extra travelling distance of only about 120km on top of its pure electric range of about 190km (for the 2017 94aH battery model). However, the Note e-Power, with its 40 litre petrol capacity has an overall range of at least 650km – 800km (and possibly greater depending on how it’s driven).

The Note e-Power is now being sold in New Zealand as a second-hand import in the $25,000 - $30,000 range, so it’s quite a good alternative to several other second-hand EVs currently on sale here.

I have had a look through the specifications but couldn’t see any reference to the Note e-Power having “cruise control”, but it may not be necessary in a car that is primarily intended to be an “around-town” vehicle. It’s a very compact car and it has a length of 4100 mm and a width of 1695mm.

Aredwood

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#1907933 26-Nov-2017 11:35

I can't see any advantages over a Toyota Prius C / Toyota Aqua. As the Pirus is the equivalent car that you would compare the Note Epower to. There is no point at all in comparing it to the Leaf. As the input fuel sources are completely different for both.

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timmmay

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#1907936 26-Nov-2017 11:48

Puzzling why they didn't make it a "plug in". Electric probably runs a bit cheaper and lower maintenance, but plugging it in and getting power from the mains reduces running costs. If you have an EV you can get a cheaper overnight per kw line price from Wellington Electric, if you're in the area and with Flick.

frednz

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#1907937 26-Nov-2017 11:50

Aredwood: I can't see any advantages over a Toyota Prius C / Toyota Aqua. As the Pirus is the equivalent car that you would compare the Note Epower to. There is no point at all in comparing it to the Leaf. As the input fuel sources are completely different for both.

Yes, it's interesting to compare the Nissan Note e-Power with the Toyota Prius C.

This article mentions that:

"This Japan-made hybrid vehicle is a special breed of hybrid developed by Nissan. It is totally different from those you see on the road right now. (e.g. Toyota Prius, Honda Vezel Hybrid) And that is because it ONLY uses the electric motor to drive the car."

But, the Prius C cannot run on its electric motor for 100% of the time, which I see as the main advantage of the Note e-Power.

With regard to comparing the Nissan Note e-Power with the Nissan Leaf, they both use an electric motor 100% of the time to drive the car, but the Leaf battery is charged up from an external power source, whereas the e-Power battery is charged up from an on-board petrol motor.

Of course, the Note e-Power doesn't have the "zero emissions" credentials of a Leaf, but it's a good alternative while waiting for a Leaf to have a more acceptable range.

frednz

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#1907939 26-Nov-2017 11:59

timmmay:

Puzzling why they didn't make it a "plug in". Electric probably runs a bit cheaper and lower maintenance, but plugging it in and getting power from the mains reduces running costs. If you have an EV you can get a cheaper overnight per kw line price from Wellington Electric, if you're in the area and with Flick.

I guess Nissan wanted an "alternative" EV that runs 100% on its electric motor, but which has a range that is equal to, or better than, that of a petrol vehicle.

This is a clever way to introduce people to the overall experience of driving a pure electric car without having to worry about the rather limited range, high cost, and charging problems of current EVs, such as the Nissan Leaf.

Aredwood

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#1907942 26-Nov-2017 12:08

The reason for comparing the Note Epower to the Toyota prius C is that they can only be fuelled by petrol.

The Note Epower doesn't give the user an option to directly fuel the car with electricity. And the Nissan Leaf doesn't give the user an option to fuel it with petrol. So they are 2 completely different cars targeted at completely different user bases.

I also think it is crazy to be spending $25K+ on a small car that doesn't offer any advantages over other small petrol cars that are already available for far cheaper.

frednz

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#1907947 26-Nov-2017 12:19

Aredwood: The reason for comparing the Note Epower to the Toyota prius C is that they can only be fuelled by petrol.

The Note Epower doesn't give the user an option to directly fuel the car with electricity. And the Nissan Leaf doesn't give the user an option to fuel it with petrol. So they are 2 completely different cars targeted at completely different user bases.

I also think it is crazy to be spending $25K+ on a small car that doesn't offer any advantages over other small petrol cars that are already available for far cheaper.

Well, that's true I suppose in that a similar sized petrol car, such as the Honda Jazz, can be bought NZ-New for around $27,000. But with the Jazz, you drive 100% of the time using a petrol motor, whereas with the Note e-Power, you drive 100% of the time using an electric motor.

So, the comparison comes down to what advantages an electric motor gives you when compared with an equivalent-sized petrol motor.

Now here's one advantage of the Note e-Power's electric motor over the motor of the Honda Jazz:

Impressive Instantaneous Torque of 254Nm
One thing that takes your breath away is how fast this vehicle can accelerate.

Although the E-power is fitted with a 1.2L engine, Nissan confirms that its torque is able to beat even a 2.0L Turbo Car in terms of acceleration! That would mean you would be paying for the performance and COE of a CAT B car with the lower price of a CAT A car. Definite plus point!

http://www.hevshop.com/single-post/2017/05/30/Nissans-Note-E-power-provides-an-exhilarating-experience-for-drivers

Now, is the Honda Jazz really an exhilarating experience for drivers when compared with the performance of the electric motor of the Nissan Note e-Power?

Aredwood

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#1907949 26-Nov-2017 12:45

Can it also do other things that a 2L turbo car can do. Such as maintain the speed limit on long uphill roads? And tow a reasonable size trailer?

Also the Epower will have engine noise, which a Leaf won't have. You still have the servicing costs of a petrol engine. And the drivetrain is completely new, so you would be the guinea pig if you bought it. While there are plenty of high Km Prius out there, which shows it is well proven. As well as independent service agents available. The Epower will be dealer only for everything.

And that article relates to Singapore, so presumably pricing is in SG$. Convert to NZ$ and add GST, you are looking at at least $31K for what I presume is a second hand small petrol car. Small conventional petrol cars are available second hand for far cheaper.

frednz

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#1908026 26-Nov-2017 17:34

Aredwood: Can it also do other things that a 2L turbo car can do. Such as maintain the speed limit on long uphill roads? And tow a reasonable size trailer?

When you ask whether the Note e-Power can "do other things that a 2L turbo car can do", I think a fairer question might be "can it do all the things that a Nissan Leaf can do"? I don't own a Note e-Power, but I think the answer is that it can match the performance of the Leaf. In other words, if a Leaf is capable of towing a reasonable-sized trailer, why shouldn't the e-Power be able to as well?

However, you raise a good point about maintaining the speed limit on long uphill roads. This point is often discussed about the petrol range extender on the BMWi3, and if the battery level is very low, the i3 electric engine may not always maintain its full speed in demanding driving conditions if it requires more energy than is being supplied by the petrol motor.

However, Nissan has a lot of experience with electric vehicles and they say this:

To achieve motor output equal to that of Nissan LEAF, it was necessary to divide power consumption between the engine and battery. A small engine would be insufficient, so we modified a 1.2-liter gasoline engine with an eye toward achieving optimal performance under Japanese driving conditions. Thanks to knowledge acquired from years of experience developing Nissan LEAF, we were successful in designing an optimal energy management system. e-POWER’s battery has just one-twentieth the capacity of LEAF’s, and is integrated with a highly compact powertrain. This intelligent system can be equipped on compact vehicles without compromising interior space.

https://medium.com/drive-publication/new-e-power-innovative-100-electric-motor-drive-system-sets-a-new-path-forward-for-evs-3e8d202442bb

frednz

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#1908153 26-Nov-2017 20:40

Aredwood: Can it also do other things that a 2L turbo car can do. Such as maintain the speed limit on long uphill roads? And tow a reasonable size trailer?

Also the Epower will have engine noise, which a Leaf won't have. You still have the servicing costs of a petrol engine. And the drivetrain is completely new, so you would be the guinea pig if you bought it. While there are plenty of high Km Prius out there, which shows it is well proven. As well as independent service agents available. The Epower will be dealer only for everything.

And that article relates to Singapore, so presumably pricing is in SG$. Convert to NZ$ and add GST, you are looking at at least $31K for what I presume is a second hand small petrol car. Small conventional petrol cars are available second hand for far cheaper.

With regard to engine noise, Nissan claims that, with the Note e-Power, this is not an issue:

“e-POWER’s engine generates electricity quickly and efficiently, ensuring smooth operation and low fuel consumption. The engine is so quiet its sound is virtually cancelled out by wind and road sounds. Practically speaking, e-POWER cars are as quiet as pure battery-powered EVs.”

With regard to the point that “the drivetrain is completely new, so you would be the guinea pig if you bought it", remember that this drivetrain has been around for a year now and has even beaten the Prius in Japanese market sales, as discussed in this article:

The automaker launched the e-Power option to the Note subcompact hatchback in its home market last November (2016) – only to see it sell like hotcakes and beat the leading Prius in Japanese market sales in January (2017).

It was a bit of a surprise to the automaker and observers in Japan. The gasoline-engine Note had been stale in the market, but the hybrid e-Power was able to be number one in overall auto sales. The Prius has been one of the best selling cars in that country.

With regard to the point that "The Epower will be dealer-only for everything”, is this any different from the current position in NZ with the Nissan Leaf? I can’t buy a NZ-New Nissan Leaf at the moment.

With regard to the point that “You are looking at at least $31k for what I presume is a second hand small petrol car", I have had a look on TradeMe Motors and there are 14 2016 or 2017 ePower Notes to choose from varying in price from $25,850 to $29,995.

RUKI

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#1908192 26-Nov-2017 22:44

Honda Hybrids from the traction battery maintenance perspective are a hard case. Sourcing replacement is hard and expensive.

In comparison - Toyota hybrids, except few rare options (with non-standard 8 & 12 cell modules) - use unified NP2 6-cell 7.2V modules which can be found in Camry, Lexus, Prius, Aqua. Different number of those but modules are the same and sourcing those is not that difficult.

For that reason any hybrid or EV which is rare in numbers in New Zealand - you would be limited to official dealer who's prices for brand new battery won't be cheap.

e.g. I've got call on Friday about freshly imported JDM Honda Hybrid (another model) - already with battery issues. And right now - nowhere to get replacement for reasonable price...

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frednz

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#1908247 27-Nov-2017 08:47

RUKI:

Honda Hybrids from the traction battery maintenance perspective are a hard case. Sourcing replacement is hard and expensive.

In comparison - Toyota hybrids, except few rare options (with non-standard 8 & 12 cell modules) - use unified NP2 6-cell 7.2V modules which can be found in Camry, Lexus, Prius, Aqua. Different number of those but modules are the same and sourcing those is not that difficult.

For that reason any hybrid or EV which is rare in numbers in New Zealand - you would be limited to official dealer who's prices for brand new battery won't be cheap.

e.g. I've got call on Friday about freshly imported JDM Honda Hybrid (another model) - already with battery issues. And right now - nowhere to get replacement for reasonable price...

Thanks Ruki, that's interesting information. I guess people who buy a second-hand imported Nissan Note e-Power would have to accept that, because there would not be many of these vehicles in NZ yet, it may pay to buy an extended 12 months warranty? It might also be prudent to own two cars when one of them is an imported second-hand pure EV or hybrid.

I wonder whether Nissan NZ may give their backing to people who buy imported second-hand Note e-Power vehicles? Have you heard of anything major that could go wrong with Note e-Powers? After all, Nissan make a point of emphasising the huge amount of experience they have with making EVs and this is a major selling point of the Note e-Power.

frednz

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#1920373 15-Dec-2017 20:36

Just a note about the remarkable fuel efficiency of the Nissan Note e-Power.

https://www.hevshop.com/single-post/2017/05/30/Nissans-Note-E-power-provides-an-exhilarating-experience-for-drivers

In the above article there is a heading that reads “unbeatable fuel efficiency of 34.0 km /l.”

The Note E-power can drive over 1,100 kilometers on its 40 litre fuel tank. To put this figure into perspective, it is the same as driving the distance from Singapore to Ipoh and back on one tank full of petrol! That also means a lot more fuel savings to you as the driver and fewer times visiting the petrol station.

And this NZ Youtube review says that the Nissan Note e-Power achieves up to 37.2 kilometres per litre in testing.

Another YouTube review says that the e-Power can go 850 miles (1371 kms) on one tank (amazing)!

Some advertisements for the e-Power even say it can achieve 2.7 litres / 100kms.

So, these reviews show the remarkable fuel efficiency that the e-Power can achieve.

Well, I'm tempted to buy one, it's obvious that, especially for around-town driving, you wouldn't need to fill up very often!

RUKI

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#1920386 15-Dec-2017 21:32

I have been at one yard in Auckland recently. I think they are trialing e-note. Anything special folks you would like to know which I can look at when I will be near those again? Color was looking good under the sun is the only thing I remember :-)

RUKI

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#1920604 16-Dec-2017 16:58

Was at the yard today - looked briefly at one of e-Note (without driving). So can only tell about few things I have noticed:

Pros:

I felt there is enough space for me;
"Bird's view" quad cam system is a good feature;
Exterior looked good;
Front view is good

Cons:

Black interior is not inline with the bright body color;
No spare wheel. It looks like the space which in the previous models was designed for that is occupied with 12V battery and few tools like jack etc. Not the best way of using that space. [In comparison - Toyota Aqua - similar size hatchback with ~700km range has spare wheel]. Perhaps you can make a false floor and put small spare wheel and that could make the rear floor inline with rear folded seats.
Rear view need to be checked when on the road for blind spots - by the look of it - there might be.

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