Pajero With Severe Judder from Steering Wheel

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Pajero With Severe Judder from Steering Wheel

TLD

908 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 263

#226202 25-Dec-2017 11:08

I thought this worth sharing in case it helps anyone. My 2001 3.5 petrol Pajero GLS suddenly developed a severe judder a while back. The sort of thing you'd associate with throwing a wheel balance weight. All four wheels were rechecked, and found to be OK. The front and back wheels were rotated fronts to the back, backs to the front, and if anything, it was worse. The judder only happened under neutral throttle, so would kick in when the cruise control was activated. speeding up or slowing down would stop it immediately.

So it went to the shop that does my repairs — Instant Autos in Blenheim — and they checked everything and could find nothing wrong. Next it went to Tyreland and their very fancy geometry gizomo where they found a bit of toe-in on the back wheels which was adjusted out. Everything else was OK, and the judder continued.

Next it went to a 4x4 specialist who also couldn't think of anything, and the problem persisted. It got weird here, as after a round trip to Nelson and few Ks local, the issue has got a lot better all by itself, and is definitely livable with now, so I can only put it down to tire wear. The tires are a half way on and off road tread and of good quality. They cost me $250 each. So my conclusion at this stage is that these tires are not a good match for the Pajero. I can't tell you what they are at the moment, because my wife has taken the Paj to work (yes it's Christmas day, but she works at Wairau hospital. I'll put up a picture of the tires later if I remember.

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

Sidestep

1019 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 567

Lifetime subscriber

#1924953 25-Dec-2017 12:14

We had a lightly modified 4x4 (with aftermarket rims & tires) that would occasionally experience severe judder/death wobble/wheel hop - right at 105km/h
Suspension/alignment all measured within spec, we rebalanced the wheels, tweaked the suspension & replaced several parts, even installed new control arms.

Borrowed a different set of tires & rims and it went away immediately. Harmonics have a lot to answer for.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#1925171 26-Dec-2017 09:18

The judder only happened under neutral throttle, so would kick in when the cruise control was activated. speeding up or slowing down would stop it immediately.

This really doesn't sound like alignment or a wheel balance issue to me. More like a drive train/ prop shaft issue (universal joints etc), or possibly transmission.

That said I've had issues with AT 4WD LT tyres going out of round to the point that I've had to turf them when they've had plenty of tread left as they couldn't be balanced, and also vibration/shimmy caused by worn suspension bushes (panhard in that case) that felt exactly like a wheel out of balance, and defied diagnosis as the free-play in the bush was small and couldn't be easily felt for with the suspension loaded up. That was very annoying as vibration/shimmy kicked in between 90-100kmh - the speed you're at on the open road most of the time.

TLD

908 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 263

#1925185 26-Dec-2017 09:48

Yes I was thinking drive train for a while, but the fact that it has almost gone away as more Ks have been done, brought me back to tires. The car is outside again now, so I'll grab a picture of the tires later

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1925217 26-Dec-2017 10:52

Does it have manual or auto freewheeling hubs on the front wheels? They can sometimes cause similar issues if 'stuck' in the wrong setting.

robjg63

4161 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1426

Subscriber

#1925235 26-Dec-2017 11:26

Had a fleet car once that started getting a terrible feel through the wheels. A sort of thrumming at a certain speed. They checked the balance of the tyres etc and a few other things. Everything was supposed to be ok, but the problem continued. Finally the mechanic ran his hands around each tyre and found one tyre had quite a flat spot (in wasn't quite round). Turned out they had started using some cheap ars*d second hand Japanese tyres. Presumably one of the tyres had been sitting somewhere for a while before being extracted and exported here.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

TLD

908 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 263

#1925251 26-Dec-2017 11:52

robjg63: Had a fleet car once that started getting a terrible feel through the wheels. A sort of thrumming at a certain speed. They checked the balance of the tyres etc and a few other things. Everything was supposed to be ok, but the problem continued. Finally the mechanic ran his hands around each tyre and found one tyre had quite a flat spot (in wasn't quite round). Turned out they had started using some cheap ars*d second hand Japanese tyres. Presumably one of the tyres had been sitting somewhere for a while before being extracted and exported here.

I wonder if a tire like this might balance OK at the speeds they use in the tire shop, but distort and go out of balance at different speeds? My issue has always been at its worse around the 70kph mark, but it has also shown up around 50kph. The tires are made by Crosswind, and on the chunky side of All Terrain. Google tells me they come from China, which gives me pause for thought. Most of the Google hits seem to be for eBay, which also tells me something — possibly that my tire fitter had a decent mark up at $250 a tire. I won't be using them again.

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

Dyson

Shop now for Dyson appliances (affiliate link).

robjg63

4161 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1426

Subscriber

#1925303 26-Dec-2017 12:50

Tire was balanced but definitely had quite a flat bit across one area. The mechanic was very proud he had worked it out and got me to feel it. As I said, only very noticeable at a certain speed. Sounds like you had some suspect tires.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

TLD

908 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 263

#2375540 14-Dec-2019 23:22

Believe it or not, this continues to be a problem all this time later. The Chinese tyres on the front wheels refused to wear out, so I replaced them anyway keeping one for the spare and throwing the other, half worn, tyre away. It made no difference.

Reading back through the thread there was a comment about the front wheel hubs locking, and I have a hint of a suspicion that they are not working properly. The front wheel drive lights go out on the dash, but I can feel a tiny bit of resistance to tight turns. I think this is more pronounced when reversing. This might correlate with the judder problem, and also with loaning the truck to my brother from the UK who did 5000 kilometres touring the South Island in it. I wonder if he left the diff lock engaged on sealed road?

I'm driving down to Christchurch on Wednesday, which is what drove me to replace the front tyres. Fortunately it is OK at 100kph All I know it is driving me demented, and I can't even sell the bloody truck with this issue!

Trevor Dennis
Rapaura (near Blenheim)

Batman

Mad Scientist
30012 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6217

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2375541 15-Dec-2019 00:03

half the cars I've owned had mysterious judders some mild some not. Currently both my cars have them one mild one very mild. I've accepted them as fact of life. Just like bicycle creaking. Though one car whose steering arm nearly broke went undiagnosed by 5 different garages until I was replacing a worn tyre every 3 months and the 6th mechanic took one look and told me to stop driving the car and he fixed it for under 100 bucks.

Resnick

242 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 58

Lifetime subscriber

#2375569 15-Dec-2019 08:27

@Fred99 was on the money I believe.

Have a look at this thread. It's not a Pajero forum, but this issue isn't uncommon and you should be able to get it sorted. There are a lot of possibilities although it's just a matter of working through them one at a time.

sqishy

530 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 193

#2375574 15-Dec-2019 08:59

My thoughts are judder caused by brake rotors needing replacing.