Electric vehicle, types of chargers?

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sdavisnz

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Topic # 242316 21-Oct-2018 16:34

Hi there,

I no nothing about electric cars, I just have a question I hope someone can answer,

Seems there are different type of plugs and charge speed for EVs,
When you buy a car do you get an adapter to work with the different types or are you stuck with one?

And can any car use any charger?

Cheers
Steve .

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Reply # 2111914 21-Oct-2018 16:58

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Recommend that you go to this site and download the guide - it has all the answers.

http://www.electricheaven.nz

tripper1000

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Reply # 2112808 23-Oct-2018 15:17

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To answer your question, mostly you don't need adaptors. In NZ any EV* can fast charge from almost any fast charger without adaptors (unless you drive a Tesla).

Generally speaking (for the main manufacturers) most cars come with two charging plugs:

1) Fast Charging (Big and chunky to handle lots of current and what you use when on a journey and in need of a quick top up).

2) Slow charging (smaller and what you plug in at home to charge overnight from a domestic outlet). This is the cheapest and most convenient option if you have off street parking so it is the most popular charging method.

Within each of the two types of of charging (fast & slow) there a two standards. Without getting technical with standard names and numbers, broadly speaking there is the Japanese system and the European system. In the UK and USA they use a mix of both, same as NZ.

1) Fast charging plugs: Practically all public fast chargers in NZ have both Japanese and European fast charging leads on them, so no adaptors needed.

2) Slow charging plugs: Usually when you buy your EV it comes with a charging lead that goes from your slow charge port to the wall outlet. It will suit your car, so weather it is Euro or Japanese doesn't really matter. A bunch of the malls etc have free slow charging. They don't always have both types of slow charge plug, but as it is slow charging, and most EV drivers don't live in malls, they aren't that bothered to use them anyway. But yes, you can get adaptors to go between Euro and Japanese slow charge plug types if you have the requirement.

* There is the occasional model/brand that does not have a fast charger inlet, so I say "generally" above.

afe66

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Reply # 2112860 23-Oct-2018 18:54

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Fast chargers provide high voltage high amp DC which charges the battery directly. There are two flavors Chademo which is used by leafs (and teslas with an adapter) and ccs2 which is used by hyundai's and bmw and others. Most rapid charger units have one of each flavour with thick cable do you just plug them into your car.

The other way of charging is using an AC 240v and up to 32A. How much your particular ev can use depends on the internal converter of your car which converts AC into DC which charges the battery.

There are a number of ways of supplying this AC current, the easiest is a cable that plugs into your home wall socket and into your car. The dealer will supply you with this. The limitation is wall sockets only output 8-10A so slow.

Many people have caravan sockets or commando sockets which most commonly seen in camping grounds where you plug in your caravan to. These are 16A so faster than wall socket.

The next option would be to get a 32A socket sometimes referred to as type2 socket. When correctly wired these sockets can provide 32A but you need a type 2 cable. One aspect of 32A power is that if your internal ac to dc unit can't use more than 16A (Japanese leaf) then you wont benefit from 32A power supply over a 16A one.

The Renailt Zoe is relatively unique in that it only takes AC but can use 3 phase so given enough ac it can nearly charge as fast as a leaf using chademo DC.

At the end of the day most people use AC slow charge st home using either domestic socket (8a), caravan socket (16A) or type 2(32A). Then when need to rapid charge, use the cables built into the rapid chargers like you would with a petrol hose.

I have a 16A caravan plug on side of my use into which I plug my leaf into overnight 3 times per week. I have a UK leaf which can take 32A but I find 16A is enough and font want to buy a 32A box which is about $800

Aredwood

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Reply # 2112899 23-Oct-2018 20:55

My understanding is that the EV Hyundai's and Teslas can also access 3 phase AC charging. And more EVs in the future will also. As batteries get bigger, charging via single phase will become impractical. 32A single phase will take over 9 hours to charge a 60Kw battery or 15 hours to charge a 100KW battery. While 3 phase cuts those times to 3 hours and 5 hours respectively.

Definitely well worth it to install a 3 phase charging socket. If you have 3 phase power available. As even if your current EV doesn't need it. Your next EV probably will. And yes, you can use a 3 phase socket to charge a single phase EV. Although you might need a simple adaptor depending on exactly what combination of plugs and sockets you have.

3 phase power is available in most homes in Germany. So European EVs will be designed to take advantage of it.

Scott3

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Reply # 2112980 23-Oct-2018 23:48

Here is NZTA's guidance:

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/planning-and-investment/planning/transport-planning/planning-for-electric-vehicles/national-guidance-for-public-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure/charging-point-connectors-and-socket-outlets/

Tesla's come with a wallbox for your sparkie to hardwire at your normal parking space. Most other EV's come with a cord to charge from a standard wall outlet.

Typical extra cost options:

Wallbox for your parking space (non-tesla)
Public slow charging cord "type 2 to type X" (where x is the socket on your car).

For fast public charging, the charger has two cords attached (two plug types), one will plug straight into your fast DC charge capable car, no adapters required (Except tesla which needs an adapter - other than at tesla "superchargers").

Given the grow of the fast charging network, most people won't need more than is mentioned above.

Of course, you can get a whole box of adapters if you want to charge from campgrounds, industrial sockets, legacy public charger with teatherd cords (if your car has opposite plug type), Tesla destination chargers with Japanese cars...

Linuxluver

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Reply # 2113030 24-Oct-2018 07:30

sdavisnz: Hi there,

I no nothing about electric cars, I just have a question I hope someone can answer,

Seems there are different type of plugs and charge speed for EVs,
When you buy a car do you get an adapter to work with the different types or are you stuck with one?

And can any car use any charger?

Cheers
Steve .

Ohm's law = Volts x Amps = Watts .....and 1 kWh is worth about 7km range, on average. I pay 16c / kWh in Auckland (meridian) and 12c / kWh in Opotiki (Ecotricity)

You can just plug in at home. Typically you charge at 8 amp or 10amp on a normal 3-pin house plug.

8amp at 240 volt gives roughly 1.8kWh of charge for each hour - or about 12km of added range. Overnight for a smaller-battery car like the Nissan LEAF this works great.

10amp at 240 volt gives roughly 2.4kWh of charge per hour - or about 19-20km of added range. Useful for an hour or two during the day as well as overnight.

16amp at 240 volt via a blue commando plug (on a dedicated circuit as your amps are getting up there) is 3.3kWh per hour - or about 25km of range added per hour.

32amp at 240 volt via a dedicated device like a Neuton Wallpod (from YHI) gives you 6.6kWh / hour - or about 50km added per hour. This can fill a 30kWh LEAF from empty in about 4 hours. A Tesla with a 100kWh battery could be 2/3 fillled overnight (10 hours). NOTE: Most Nissan LEAFs can't charge at this speed. They max out at 3.3kw. But almost every OTHER EV can AC charge this fast. NOTE 2: At 32amp there are no portable EVSE. This level of current is too high.

There are DC charging options for home, but they are very expensive. A 10kw DC charger could run you $5,000.

____________________________________________________
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MikeAqua

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Reply # 2113113 24-Oct-2018 09:25

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Linuxluver:

There are DC charging options for home, but they are very expensive. A 10kw DC charger could run you $5,000.

But possibly worth it on a new build?

If I was building a house tomorrow, I would definitely include facilities for charging EVs. Everyone I know who has built a house has included EV charging facilities in the garage. None of them own EVs or are considering purchase, but wanted to be future-proof.

Mike

PolicyGuy

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Reply # 2113132 24-Oct-2018 10:12

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Aredwood: My understanding is that the EV Hyundai's and Teslas can also access 3 phase AC charging. And more EVs in the future will also.
[snip]
Definitely well worth it to install a 3 phase charging socket. If you have 3 phase power available.
[snip]
3 phase power is available in most homes in Germany. So European EVs will be designed to take advantage of it.

The vast majority of NZ urban / suburban homes do not have 3-phase power, though it is relatively common in rural properties.
Most ordinary NZ homes have only single phase, though some older places might have dual phase supplies where the "electric range" was on one phase and everything else on the second.

So in NZ, the most powerful charging option available at home would in most cases be 32A / 7.5kW

MikeAqua

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Reply # 2113163 24-Oct-2018 11:30

PolicyGuy:

The vast majority of NZ urban / suburban homes do not have 3-phase power, though it is relatively common in rural properties.
Most ordinary NZ homes have only single phase, though some older places might have dual phase supplies where the "electric range" was on one phase and everything else on the second.

So in NZ, the most powerful charging option available at home would in most cases be 32A / 7.5kW

House power on one phase, water-pump and electric fence on another, possibly HWC on another.

If the pump and the house power ran on the same phase, weird things could happen with the TV and lights.

Mike

Ge0rge

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Reply # 2113261 24-Oct-2018 15:56

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MikeAqua:
House power on one phase, water-pump and electric fence on another, possibly HWC on another.

If the pump and the house power ran on the same phase, weird things could happen with the TV and lights.

Please don't say that too loud - my house might hear you! Currently the pump, the lights, the tv and the wifi all get along nicely together on the one phase...

MikeAqua

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Reply # 2113342 24-Oct-2018 17:31

Ge0rge:
MikeAqua:

House power on one phase, water-pump and electric fence on another, possibly HWC on another.

If the pump and the house power ran on the same phase, weird things could happen with the TV and lights.

Please don't say that too loud - my house might hear you! Currently the pump, the lights, the tv and the wifi all get along nicely together on the one phase...

I suspect it's no longer an issue unless you have old filament type bulbs and an old CRT TV.

Mike

Aredwood

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Reply # 2113400 24-Oct-2018 18:07

MikeAqua:
PolicyGuy:

The vast majority of NZ urban / suburban homes do not have 3-phase power, though it is relatively common in rural properties.
Most ordinary NZ homes have only single phase, though some older places might have dual phase supplies where the "electric range" was on one phase and everything else on the second.

So in NZ, the most powerful charging option available at home would in most cases be 32A / 7.5kW

House power on one phase, water-pump and electric fence on another, possibly HWC on another.

If the pump and the house power ran on the same phase, weird things could happen with the TV and lights.

Agree that most houses only have single phase power available.

I was meaning the scenario of you getting an electrician to install a new circuit from your switchboard that will be used for EV charging. If that switchboard already has 3 phase connected to it. Then you would be silly not to run a 3 phase cable for the EV charger.

Myself- My house only has single phase. But my switchboard and underground mains cable need to be upgraded. (1960s switchboard and cable is non compliant for voltage drop if I try to put 63A through it). So it makes sense to get 3 phase connected at the same time as those upgrades.

PhantomNVD

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Reply # 2113411 24-Oct-2018 18:44

Conversely, I have 3 phase and a ‘brand new’ (now 2 year old) house but only a Gen1 Jap Leaf so $250 for the Commando port with its 16A circuit right under the modern switchboard was a much better proposition than a 3 phase wall box (800+sparkie) for a charger I can’t use any faster unless/until I spend $30K+ on a better EV...

richms

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Reply # 2113445 24-Oct-2018 20:19

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MikeAqua:

I suspect it's no longer an issue unless you have old filament type bulbs and an old CRT TV.

More likly some of the trash new LED lamps that are cost cut down to $2 by leaving out things like power supplies. I have some here that give a visible glitch when just turning on other lights from the inrush to those.

Richard rich.ms

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Reply # 2113532 24-Oct-2018 22:36

PhantomNVD: Conversely, I have 3 phase and a ‘brand new’ (now 2 year old) house but only a Gen1 Jap Leaf so $250 for the Commando port with its 16A circuit right under the modern switchboard was a much better proposition than a 3 phase wall box (800+sparkie) for a charger I can’t use any faster unless/until I spend $30K+ on a better EV...

At least you can very easily upgrade later to 3 phase charging.

Far better than a switchboard in the middle of the house. And then not being able to get a 3 phase cable to it without either lots of surface trunking or ripping open and fixing the wall linings. When a 3 phase cable could have been installed at the pre wire stage.

Or paying for the cable and Labour cost to run a single phase cable, then having to pay for another cable and the Labour cost again to run a 3 phase cable. You can always connect up.the cable initially as single phase if 3 phase in not needed right now.

I'm saying all of this to hopefully get other people to consider build costs today Vs future retrofitting costs. And hopefully avoid the equivalent of someone moving into a brand new house with UFB. And the only data cabling installed is daisy chained around lots of voice only jackpoints. When it would have been very little extra cost to star wire the cables at the build stage.

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