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14 posts

Geek


#268094 27-Feb-2020 18:58
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Hi everyone,

 

I am a newbie to general EV transport.

 

Recently, on Feb 10, I have got Nissan Leaf X 2013  ( aze0-058076 ) from 2CheapCars with 11 bars (it was highlighted by sellet) and 77.92% SoH according to LeafSpy report kindly posted by seller in the classified. It was a bit suspicious for the car low mileage - around 37,000 km. However, overall car condition was pretty good thus I decide to by it.

 

During last two weeks I made about 1000 km and unfortunately lost one bar. Yesterday I have got opportunity to get another LeafSpy check and found that SoH dropped to 72.59%. After another 170 km trip I have got one more check today and found that SoH became a bit less - 72.53%.

 

Other parameters such as AHr and Hx also got lower.

 

Seller report / My report on Feb26 / My report Feb27

 

AHr  50.96   /           47.47           /         47.43

 

SoH  77.92  /           72.59           /          72.53

 

Hx    70.83  /           64.52           /          64.45

 

ODO 36,478 /          37,649          /          37.820

 

I have got auction list - ODO showings match. Thus I rather guess it's about battery swap and reset and partial calibration then about wound backed ODO.

 

I have paid about $13,500 for the car and now regret about this purchase.

 

My question to experienced owners of Leaf: could you advise what may be good choice in my case - to try to return the car back to 2CheapCars or rather discuss significant discount (2-3 grand)?

 

Any suggestions are welcome!

 

 


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735 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2428495 27-Feb-2020 21:20
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I'd recommend having a read through the Leaf thread and then posting this there :)




14 posts

Geek


  #2428525 27-Feb-2020 22:32
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Obraik,

 

Thank you for recommendation (though it is pretty obvious) but I am gonna stuck there for ages. I need for prompt response on what happened with the battery as I have to go to dealer to discuss further options tomorrow.

 

All I need is just some suggestions of local Leaf veterans.

 

Cheers!


 
 
 
 


374 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #2428526 27-Feb-2020 22:38
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Mileage doesn't really mean anything for SoH, the charging/storage habits and temperature exposure have more impact. I wouldn't be concerned about a wound back odometer.

 

While I'd be reluctant to go near 2CheapCars, loss of SOH is normal for any freshly imported Leaf.

 

For context, my 2013 Leaf X arrived in September, with 85,000kms, 70% SOH, and 10 bars. (It dropped to 9 soon after I bought it, and I'd seen 9 bar leafs with a SOH higher than 70%, the bars are a bit weird).

 

Nearly 6 months later I've done 9,000kms in it, my SOH is now 65%, and I only have 8 bars.

 

I've noticed from my own experiences that a bunch of fast charging will artifically inflate the SOH for a few weeks. When I did 10 fast charges in a day driving from Wellington to Hamilton, my SOH increased by 4%, but then dropped down again quickly. It's possible 2CheapCars did this before taking their SOH reading.

 

While some loss of SOH is normal, to lose the amount you have in such a short amount of time is concerning.

 

If the car's range with the decreased SOH will still meet your needs, I'd be discussing a reimbursement. If it won't meet your needs/you want to return it, I reckon try for that. 

 

If you've not already read it, check this out to see what percentile a Leaf of a certain age/SOH falls into: https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/


9718 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2428551 28-Feb-2020 04:59
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@XERG you would likely get a faster response by posing in there as people follow that thread and get notifications when new content is posted, vs they dont generally when new threads are posted. just a suggestion


151 posts

Master Geek

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DR

  #2428595 28-Feb-2020 08:48
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A drop in SoH after purchase for Leafs imported from Japan is relatively common and usually isn't someone trying to cheat. It is primarily the change from L3 fast changing (which is very common in Japan) to L2 slow charging that causes the drop.

 

I've written about this here: https://flipthefleet.org/2018/dont-be-alarmed-if-your-state-of-health-fluctuates/

 

For a 2013 Nissan Leaf, a SoH at 72.5% is just below the 50% percentile in the benchmarks I publish at https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/ This means it is completely within the normal range.


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Uber Geek

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  #2428596 28-Feb-2020 08:50
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One of the issues with buying evs is buying from ev specialist and market is new.

One of the quirks is that there can be problems with soh that not reflect usual soh. Not saying it's a fiddle, possibly to.do with storage.

Some advocate asking the seller to guarantee the soh doesn't drop below a certain point to ensure the soh that was advertised is real.

There are people who have returned cars who's soh dropped very quickly after purchase arguing it was advertised in misleading manner. Analogous to discovering the odometer was wound back.

I bought my 2014 (uk) leaf 3 years ago from an ev specialist with a soh of 89% and its currently 86% after another 20k km. Out of interest it has only had 45 quick charges.

How much did you pay?



14 posts

Geek


  #2428629 28-Feb-2020 09:43
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I've reposted my first message with some clarification and LeafSpy reports to the general thread.

 

 

 

JoshWright:

 

Mileage doesn't really mean anything for SoH, the charging/storage habits and temperature exposure have more impact. I wouldn't be concerned about a wound back odometer.

 

You are absolutely right. But I forgot to mention 1550 QCs and 1700 L1/L2. How is it for such a mileage?

 

JoshWright:

 

For context, my 2013 Leaf X arrived in September, with 85,000kms, 70% SOH, and 10 bars. (It dropped to 9 soon after I bought it, and I'd seen 9 bar leafs with a SOH higher than 70%, the bars are a bit weird).

 

Nearly 6 months later I've done 9,000kms in it, my SOH is now 65%, and I only have 8 bars.

 

I was looking for a fresher car/battery assuming that it will be able to serve me at least 5 years and residual SoH expected to be about 50% after next 60,000 km.

 

JoshWright:

 

I've noticed from my own experiences that a bunch of fast charging will artifically inflate the SOH for a few weeks. When I did 10 fast charges in a day driving from Wellington to Hamilton, my SOH increased by 4%, but then dropped down again quickly. It's possible 2CheapCars did this before taking their SOH reading.

 

I did not get consent for outlet installation in a garage yet that's why I am charging my car on the rapid chargers. If Japanese seller did inflate showings by mean of rapid charger it's not gonna deflate so far (according to auction list and ODO showings car have done less then 100km in NZ prior to my purchase). And probably battery statistics will look worse after I will get my power outlet ready.

 

JoshWright:

 

While some loss of SOH is normal, to lose the amount you have in such a short amount of time is concerning.

 

That's the biggest concern.

 

JoshWright:

 

If you've not already read it, check this out to see what percentile a Leaf of a certain age/SOH falls into: https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/

 

BTW, my battery SoH is lower then average 2013 Leaf. Far not a bargan.


 
 
 
 




14 posts

Geek


  #2428633 28-Feb-2020 09:51
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afe66: 

 

I bought my 2014 (uk) leaf 3 years ago from an ev specialist with a soh of 89% and its currently 86% after another 20k km. Out of interest it has only had 45 quick charges.

 

I am looking for battery like yours in regards of degradation. Honestly, if mine will degrade down to 70% till next 10,000 I would be happy. Of course, some discount based on recent rapid lost and smaller then expected range to be discussed.

 

afe66: 
How much did you pay?

 

$13,500. Came with most basic red 8A charger, new alloys and no grooming. Model G according to JP auction list.




14 posts

Geek


  #2428659 28-Feb-2020 10:35
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zenourn:

 

A drop in SoH after purchase for Leafs imported from Japan is relatively common and usually isn't someone trying to cheat. It is primarily the change from L3 fast changing (which is very common in Japan) to L2 slow charging that causes the drop.

 

 

I am still on the fast chargers. I guess it souldn't be my case.

 

zenourn:

 

I've written about this here: https://flipthefleet.org/2018/dont-be-alarmed-if-your-state-of-health-fluctuates/

 

For a 2013 Nissan Leaf, a SoH at 72.5% is just below the 50% percentile in the benchmarks I publish at https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/ This means it is completely within the normal range.

 

 

Thank you for the statistics. I see that my battery somewhere about 40 percentiles. It is not bad if you are using your car for years and got 100,000+ km on ODO.

 

But in my case it does not make sense I guess. I ready to pay few grand more to double that percentiles.


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