Tow ball down weight

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cunningdavid

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#282733 8-Mar-2021 14:54

We have a 2011 VW Tiguan and are looking to tow a boat. Looking for some advice on the tow ball weight.

Our current tow ball has a maximum down weight of 65kg, and Towbar Express that installed it say that's a limit of the transmission on the car rather than the tow ball itself.

I called East Coast Tow Bars and they say they can install a tow bar with a limit of 100kg down weight.

It seems that someone isn't giving us the right information. Can anyone help with advice to decide what the right info is? Thanks in advance.

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#2670140 8-Mar-2021 15:05

I know only enough to be dangerous.

It strikes me that when you are pulling a load forward, the force is distributed fairly evenly across all of the mounting bolts of the towbar. Horizontal weight is likely loaded on the nearest mount points only, and leverage comes into play. I'd guess it's not the 65kg weight that's the problem, but the amplified 65kg weight when you hit bumps at speed. I'd only be making blind guesses as to whether this momentarily loads up another 5x or 10x or 100x force on those bolts and chassis mounting points.

Perhaps ask East Coast Tow Bars what they are doing differently to allow for an increased tow ball weight limit?

Also... I'd have thought tow capacity might relate to the transmission capabilities, but I'd have thought the tow ball weight would be largely irrelevant.

What is it that you are looking to tow that might have that sort of tow ball weight? Can the axels on that trailer be adjusted to balance it better? Keeping this in mind of course..... https://youtu.be/w9Dgxe584Ss (a 90 second advertorial with some decent information)

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dolsen

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#2670145 8-Mar-2021 15:17

Most of the factory fitted ones have a towball weight of approx. 10% of the towbar braked weight limit. Most of the aftermarket ones have much less I have found. What does a genuine factory fitted towbar have listed as the towball weight? Note - the factory fitted ones can have additional reinforcing or additional mounting points to achieve these limits.

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#2670151 8-Mar-2021 15:27

This may help?

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/glovebox-guide-safe-loading-towing/docs/guide-safe-loading-towing.pdf

Hard to answer without more details on the boat, connection, is it braked/unbraked etc.

65Kg should be ample for a regular boat, even a smaller twin axle braked trailer. I would have thought total tow mass weight (maximum weight) rating for the tow bar would have been more important for the transmission than down weight, but I am not an engineer.

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Inphinity

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#2670154 8-Mar-2021 15:30

Pretty sure the AU/NZ spec OEM towbar kit for the Tiguan has a 100kg down weight limit. If there are different models imported from overseas with different capabilities I can't be sure sorry.

Oblivian

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#2670185 8-Mar-2021 16:05

I would have thought a well done trailer should have very little actual 'weight' on the font. To the point where you can usually lift it up by hand and manouver (although they do add a jockey to help there incase it needs a bit of extra on the front to balance)

But give a local dealer a call? Or look at the manual and or specs. You might find one over-rules the other

An online one for the manual version suggests flat tow 2200lbs/1T max. But that may be covering off standard weight. Often, like in the case of my auto i30. It wasn't really ever designed to tow. Because it's just plain weak powered and funky box :) but you can get away with one for light work or bike-racking. I think they put a '1200' marked ball on in my case

A 2nd link is indicative of braked 2,000Kg max https://www.carsguide.com.au/volkswagen/tiguan/towing-capacity/2011

cunningdavid

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#2670282 8-Mar-2021 20:19

I agree that a well balanced trailer should have little weight on the towball. This one seems to have quite a lot of weight, despite being custom-made for the boat and having two axles (though they are close together). It's a braked trailer and the horizontal weight is not an issue, it's the downward pressure on the towball.

To get an official answer this afternoon I asked the Wellington VW dealer about getting a towball installed, and they said theirs would support support 100kg down weight. So I guess Towbar Express must be reporting the limit of their particular towball rather than the Tiguan after all.

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Handle9

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#2670289 8-Mar-2021 20:44

Rough rule of thumb is tow ball download is 10% of the weight of a trailer. Most Euros seem to have a max download of 100kg compared to a 250-350kg download on many Japanese vehicles.

This video is helpful to understand everything involved. It's John Cadogan so it's NSFW and a bit silly at times but his explanations are logical.

cunningdavid

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#2670293 8-Mar-2021 20:51

Unfortunately I get an error playing that video. Can you give me the title of it, and I'll look it up on Youtube? Thanks!

Handle9

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#2670296 8-Mar-2021 20:54

cunningdavid:

Unfortunately I get an error playing that video. Can you give me the title of it, and I'll look it up on Youtube? Thanks!

Odd, so am I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swUDFWQ5QhI&t=1250s

Complete guide to heavy towing (GVM, GCM & ATM explained) | Auto Expert John Cadogan

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#2670298 8-Mar-2021 20:57

Normally a well balanced trailer is nose heavy to reduce the tendency for swaying. I'd be careful with a boat if it had a fair amount of the weight as an outboard hanging off the back. Euro vehicles have lower towball weight allowances but also in their home markets have lower towing speeds. I'd also ask someone with VW expertise about towing with an older vehicle if it's a DSG gearbox.

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#2670306 8-Mar-2021 21:35

Handle9:

cunningdavid:

Unfortunately I get an error playing that video. Can you give me the title of it, and I'll look it up on Youtube? Thanks!

Odd, so am I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swUDFWQ5QhI&t=1250s

Complete guide to heavy towing (GVM, GCM & ATM explained) | Auto Expert John Cadogan

amazing bedtime watch.

however, re payload (from 11-12 mins in) ... pretty sure many families will exceed them!

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Handle9

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#2670308 8-Mar-2021 21:41

Batman:

Handle9:

Odd, so am I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swUDFWQ5QhI&t=1250s

Complete guide to heavy towing (GVM, GCM & ATM explained) | Auto Expert John Cadogan

amazing bedtime watch.

however, re payload (from 11-12 mins in) ... pretty sure many families will exceed them!

That's the point. Towing a heavy load isn't just a case of checking the ATM and saying she'll be right.

Scott3

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#2670315 8-Mar-2021 22:56

As a general note's with towing downforce / noseweight / ball weight:

USA & Aussie tow rated vehicles (incl many common Japanese models) are typically rated for 10% of the trailer weight on the tow hitch.
Euro Targeted models (Euro brands, Mazda & some others), have much lower percentage ball weights. (sometimes 3.5 - 5%).

The big difference is that in Europe the speeds people tow at are lower than in the USA (and to a lesser extent aussie). Many things are factors in the dynamic stability of a tow rig, but the two biggest by far are speed & ball down force. In short, with more ball down force, one can travel faster without the rig going unstable.

As an example, the max speed limit for towing a 750kg - 3.5T trailer in austria is 80km/h. For comparison NZ is 90km/h, Western Australia is 100km/h, Colorado (usa) 120km/h.

Clearly NZ is towards the bottom of the speed's listed above, so there are not any particular issues with the euro approve here. (But very important to be mindfull to comply with the speed limit if traveling with a sub 5% ball weight heavy trailer, especially down hills).

Also need to be mindfull if running something like a 4% ball weight on a heavy trailer, A bunch of extra weigh rearwards will dramatically reduce this, and may leave the rig dangerously unstable. (say boat winch mount slipping 100mm rearwards, 200L of water in the back of the boat, 100kg of bikes on the back of a caravan etc).

Plenty of videos online with nasty crashes due to the center of gravity being too far back on trailers.

The euro approach to tow ratings, allows a vehicle like a VW golf to be rated for 1500kg towing and a 75kg nose-weight (UK ratings, haven't checked NZ). Essentially allowing heavier trailers for the size of the car. For comparison my 2000kg empty 6 cylinder Japanese brand SUV gets the same 1500kg rating, but a 150kg nose wight rating.

cunningdavid:

We have a 2011 VW Tiguan and are looking to tow a boat. Looking for some advice on the tow ball weight.

Our current tow ball has a maximum down weight of 65kg, and Towbar Express that installed it say that's a limit of the transmission on the car rather than the tow ball itself.

I called East Coast Tow Bars and they say they can install a tow bar with a limit of 100kg down weight.

It seems that someone isn't giving us the right information. Can anyone help with advice to decide what the right info is? Thanks in advance.

Towbar Express is wrong. The total rig weight will have an impact on the transmission, but not the max ball load.

Poster below & my quick google search suggests that the OEM Tiguran towbar is rated for 100kg downforce.

It is very common for aftermarket towbar's to not have the same downforce as OEM units.

Get in touch with your local VW dealer and get them to quote you the price for a genuine towbar install, and ask what rating & max downforce it will have...

Inphinity:

Pretty sure the AU/NZ spec OEM towbar kit for the Tiguan has a 100kg down weight limit. If there are different models imported from overseas with different capabilities I can't be sure sorry.

My quick google search (from unverified forum sources) gave the 100kg number.

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#2670316 8-Mar-2021 23:01

I have a Skoda Yeti, similar size to the Tiguan. I’d advise against towing anything heavy with the VW DSG gearbox. I tow a light caravan, 800kg with mine and the oil and gearbox temps skyrocket when on any sort of incline. If you really must use this vehicle then it would pay to visit a transmission specialist and ask about fitting a transmission cooler. The DSG is a fantastic gearbox but when they go bust they cost a lot to repair.

Scott3

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#2670317 8-Mar-2021 23:14

Oblivian:

I would have thought a well done trailer should have very little actual 'weight' on the font. To the point where you can usually lift it up by hand and manouver (although they do add a jockey to help there incase it needs a bit of extra on the front to balance)

But give a local dealer a call? Or look at the manual and or specs. You might find one over-rules the other

An online one for the manual version suggests flat tow 2200lbs/1T max. But that may be covering off standard weight. Often, like in the case of my auto i30. It wasn't really ever designed to tow. Because it's just plain weak powered and funky box :) but you can get away with one for light work or bike-racking. I think they put a '1200' marked ball on in my case

A 2nd link is indicative of braked 2,000Kg max https://www.carsguide.com.au/volkswagen/tiguan/towing-capacity/2011

For heavy (500kg+) trailers this is very dangerous. They pretty much all have wind down jockey wheels for the reason that they are to heavy for most people to lift on their own.

Watch the first 10seconds of the below video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mW_gzdh6to

cunningdavid:

I agree that a well balanced trailer should have little weight on the towball. This one seems to have quite a lot of weight, despite being custom-made for the boat and having two axles (though they are close together). It's a braked trailer and the horizontal weight is not an issue, it's the downward pressure on the towball.

To get an official answer this afternoon I asked the Wellington VW dealer about getting a towball installed, and they said theirs would support support 100kg down weight. So I guess Towbar Express must be reporting the limit of their particular towball rather than the Tiguan after all.

As per the above link, need to have a decent amount of weight on the nose for stability.

"Traditional" rule of thumb is 10%, or the vehicles max nose wight, which ever is less. Myself I would be very reluctant to go under about 4.5% in any circumstances. If your car's OEM towbar would have a 100kg downforce & a 2000kg tow limit (5%), this is how VW designed their vehicle to tow, and it's ok.

Frankly for towing a tandom axle boat trailer (Typically 1500kg+), I think you really are best to have the towbar swapped out for one supporting the full 100kg towbar down force.

Regarding boat trailers, it is very common for these to be designed so the entire winch post is bolted on with U bolts, allowing it to be moved forward and rearwards, to get the targeted nose weight. Alternatively a packer can be put under the snubbed to move the boat rearwards on the trailer a little.

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