Lets Get Welly Moving releases its options for Wellington Transport

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Lets Get Welly Moving releases its options for Wellington Transport

D1023319

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#290292 1-Nov-2021 16:11

Heres the Link

https://lgwm.nz/hello

1. South Coast Light Rail and new public transport tunnel

2. Bus Rapid transit to sea and skies

3. South Coast Light Rail

4. South Coast light rail via Tananaki St

What do people think?

I am not a fan as I fail to see how:

- it can provide a better service than buses and it will share the road with other vehicles from Newtown
- it is solving the Basin choke point as there is a lack of information in their videos
- etc

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MikeB4
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#2805567 1-Nov-2021 16:32

It will be a step in the right direction.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

shk292

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#2805568 1-Nov-2021 16:36

Ah but it's light Rail, which is the holy grail to greenies and will solve all our problems. Nobody mention trams

wellygary

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#2805571 1-Nov-2021 16:41

All the options are over $6 Billion and no construction to begin before 2028... this is going to result in 7 years of even more consultation,

No sense of any urgency ..... what a disappointment,

MikeB4

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#2805572 1-Nov-2021 16:44

shk292:

Ah but it's light Rail, which is the holy grail to greenies and will solve all our problems. Nobody mention trams

Not the "holy Grail" but a step in the right direction to get rid of the diesel buses off the road and get more cars out of the city.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Dingbatt

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#2805574 1-Nov-2021 17:00

The best way to get Wellington moving would be to move as many Government ministries as possible out of the city and disperse them around the country. If the pandemic has shown anything it is that they don’t all need to be in Wellington. Probably be done for less than $6B.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Lias

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#2805579 1-Nov-2021 17:06

Honestly when I first read them I thought where's the "none, all of these are crap" option.

To me the most palatable one is option 4, because I'm opposed to removing the basin as a roundabout, but it's still a bit like asking which testicle I'd like to be kicked in.

To me, any solution that doesn't include certain options isn't worth the paper it's written on, e.g.

Duplicating the Terrace tunnel for cars
Duplicating the Mount Vic tunnel for cars
"4 lanes to the planes"
Mass Transit options should all be subterranean or elevated so they don't impact vehicle traffic flow.

I've got zero problem with them wanting to add new public transport options, but it needs to be done along side improving the facilities for all those electric cars we're going to be driving soon.

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MikeB4

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#2805632 1-Nov-2021 17:17

Adding more motor vehicle capacity does not reduce congestion, pollution, parking demands and does not create a better city. Providing effective reliable public transport does. Then a city can ban cars from the CBD creating quieter, cleaner people friendly environment and a CBD which is pleasnt to work, live and play in.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

shk292

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#2805633 1-Nov-2021 17:17

MikeB4:

Not the "holy Grail" but a step in the right direction to get rid of the diesel buses off the road and get more cars out of the city.

Why are trams, sorry light rail, better than electric buses? They share the road, but have less flexibility than buses. I'm totally on side with reducing consumption of diesel but not convinced this is a VFM way of doing it

MikeB4

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#2805634 1-Nov-2021 17:19

Dingbatt:
The best way to get Wellington moving would be to move as many Government ministries as possible out of the city and disperse them around the country. If the pandemic has shown anything it is that they don’t all need to be in Wellington. Probably be done for less than $6B.

That could easily be done but the senior leadership would be terrified to move away from the Terrace and Parliament.

Oh and away from coffee

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Lias

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#2805638 1-Nov-2021 17:30

Dingbatt:

The best way to get Wellington moving would be to move as many Government ministries as possible out of the city and disperse them around the country. If the pandemic has shown anything it is that they don’t all need to be in Wellington. Probably be done for less than $6B.

Agreed. Even if they just moved a decent chunk of them out to Kapiti, Horowhenua, South Wairarapa etc, you know where half their staff already live lol.

PolicyGuy

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#2805641 1-Nov-2021 17:39

Dingbatt:

The best way to get Wellington moving would be to move as many Government ministries as possible out of the city and disperse them around the country. If the pandemic has shown anything it is that they don’t all need to be in Wellington. Probably be done for less than $6B.

This was called "Regional Development" in the 1970s.
It led to Government Printing Office in Masterton (since sold off), the Motor Vehicle Registration Centre in Palmerston North (still there I think) and the Wanganui* Computer Centre (also sold off). IRD had regional offices which did all the real work in their various regions. I'm sure there were other projects as well.

It brought high-paying technical and managerial jobs to talent-rich but job-poor provincial centres. It was pure politics and loathed by the Public Service Mandarins in Wellington. It was also unpopular with Public Service middle management as it might mean they had to go and live in the sticks for a while as they climbed the management greasy pole.
As soon as the "more Market!", "Private Sector good, Public Sector bad" philosophy took hold, these ventures were doomed because they were seen as relics of a failed political system.

It won't happen again now unless there's a revolution in political thought.
NZ doesn't have a single Public Service with a State Services Commissioner at the top of the tree any more, it has several dozen independent agencies each with their own Chief Executive with the State Services Commissioner really being only one of them with some extra powers. Any attempt by a Minister or by Cabinet to tell a Chief Executive that he or she must move a major chunk of their operation somewhere outside Wellington would be regarded as an intolerable intrusion of politicians into "Operational Matters"

* Yes, it's spelled "Whanganui" now which is much more correct, but that was then.
Poor ignorant Pākehā got confused because Whanganui Māori don't say the "wh", they say "w"
Correct pronunciation is "wanganui", not "fanganui", Correct spelling is "Whanganui", not "Wanganui"

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Lias

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#2805645 1-Nov-2021 17:45

MikeB4: Adding more motor vehicle capacity does not reduce congestion, pollution, parking demands and does not create a better city. Providing effective reliable public transport does. Then a city can ban cars from the CBD creating quieter, cleaner people friendly environment and a CBD which is pleasnt to work, live and play in.

Adding more capacity for vehicles kind of does, by it's very definition, reduce congestion, if the capacity is added the entire route.

We're already outlawing internal combustion vehicles, so the pollution argument is kind of already dead in the water.

Yes, parking is an issue, Wellington really does need some new multi story carparks (preferably not run by Voldemort Parking Services)

"Creating a better city" Is utterly subjective, what you and I think is a better city is clearly not the same thing.

I'm not opposed to public transport (hell I used it when I used to have to commute to the CBD), but it can't be the only solution. People are always going need to go to the shops at lunch, drive up to see their mum or their girlfriend after work, pick up a <online auction> purchase after work, etc. There is always going to be a both a need, and a desire, for individuals to be able to take personal transport options into the CBD and that can't be (nor should it be) ignored. I generally used my motorbike when things like that arose, but occasionally I had to take a car into the CBD and it was a nightmare.. It really shouldn't be.

MikeB4

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#2805662 1-Nov-2021 18:32

I am not anti car. I believe that we need to use them better. Getting as many cars out of the city means that access for those who have no option, eg Couriers, Emergency services, folks that due to say disability or travel from areas without public transport can do so efficiently and cleaner.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2805664 1-Nov-2021 18:34

Good things take time ..... How long have Wellington buses had snapper?

And now (in 2 weeks) you'll be able to use it on the Johnsonville line as a trial. Look how long that took.

And before it's even started, they've made a hash of it.

I take a bus from Johnsonville west to the City and that costs $3.80 on the Snapper. A 10 Trip on the train for Wellington - Johnsonville is $38 ($3.80 per trip). So you'd think that once Snapper is available on the train, the cost would be the same to travel my commute. Nope. Wrong. There are no transfers between the train and bus.

So, if they can't get something simple like that working, what hope is there for this new vision?

It'll go out for consultation, get some feedback, then will be decided that it's a goods idea, but there's no money to pay for it, that'll be the end of it.

GV27

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#2805672 1-Nov-2021 18:51

shk292:

Why are trams, sorry light rail, better than electric buses? They share the road, but have less flexibility than buses. I'm totally on side with reducing consumption of diesel but not convinced this is a VFM way of doing it

Corridors can only handle so many buses per minute before they can't pull over to pick up passengers without needing extra space so they can overtake at stops. They very quickly lose their per-seat efficiency once you start having buses log-jammed at stops or traffic lights - it doesn't take many waiting to turn left to jam up a city block as midtown Auckland knows all to well.

Light Rail takes pressure off the corridor by carrying 2 - 3x (most NZ case studies are based a little over 2x) the number of people a bus can. This means you can, effectively, massively increase the development potential along a transit route, as your buses are no longer a bottleneck.

The argument is that if you need to close off a lane of traffic for a bus lane then you might as well move people down it as efficiently as possible. Light rail smokes buses in this regard, and if Wellington can fit a street race through its downtown, it can probably handle a downtown tram circuit that kits key points as well as the airport and a few burbs.

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