LDV eT60- electric double cab ute.

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › LDV eT60- electric double cab ute. - Pricing released.

Scott3

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#298713 9-Jul-2022 15:41

The eT60 will be priced from $79,990, including GST and on-road costs.

Just fitting in under the $80k cap to make it eligible for the $8,625 rebate.

Deliveries said to stat in Nov / Dec.

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/pricing-and-specs-announced-for-new-zealand-s-first-ev-ute/

https://evsandbeyond.co.nz/ldv-confirms-price-for-nzs-first-fully-electric-ute

New spec sheet is out

https://easyupload.io/xu40a7

Sadly the spec sheet is riddled with errors. Some places have 150kW power, some have 130kW. Capitals in SI units are all over the place, one place states a DC charge to 80% in 40mins, another states 5 - 80% in 45mins. But I will try and take from it what I can.

And for comparison info from the Feb reveal:

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/ldv-ev-t60-new-zealand-s-first-electric-ute-is-revealed/

Good news:

Our first EV ute is going to start deliveries really soon.
an increase in tow rating from 1000kg to 1500kg. Still very low for the class, but a little less embarrassing.
Same big battery and respectable range as at release (88.55kWh/ 325km).
Hopefully the big battery means the car is less sensitive to added drag like a roof load or towing, than more efficient EV's like the tesla model 3.
Sum of axle loads (3300kg, is quite a bit more than GVM (3050kg), which gives some flexibility as to how the ute be loaded)
Improved safety spec (side & curtain airbags)
220v outlet (current not stated).
Battery cooled by various method's
Reasonably quick DC fast charging. if we assume 80kWh of the 88.55kWh battery is usable, 5% to 80% in 45mins equates to an average of 80kW, which is respectable.
Impressive AC charging speed (5 hours). That works out to about 16kW (approx 32a three phase), which must be market leading, or close to it.
Disc Brakes on all four wheels (many utes use drums in the rear)

Bad things:

Big drop in payload from 980kg to 750kg. Good if comparing with a SUV, but quite low for a ute.
GTW of 4050kg very limiting (assume this is gross train weight, usually GCM). Means if you tow the max 1500kg, you only have 250kg remaining paylod for the ute (remember accessories like towbar, tray liner, tray lid / canopy, driver, passengers etc come out of this).
Very inefficient. Just 325km range from a 88.55kWh battery. As an example the EV6 RWD gets over 528km WLTP rates from a much smaller battery (77.4kWh total / 74.0kWh).
Demo car at release has the motor mounted directly to the differential flange on the rear solid axle, which means a lot of unstrung weight. Interestingly the brochure depicts a different motor that could go under the bonnet (but this is unfeasible as the battery pack is in the way of the driveshaft that would be needed to make the ute the advertised RWD).
Charge port location (ahead of the rear axle, left hand side), may require some creative parking get DC fast charger cords to reach - many favor cars with charge ports on the ends.
Still no mention of a frunk.

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#2940185 9-Jul-2022 19:26

That has just made the model 3 purchase look a lot less smart now...

Richard rich.ms

Scott3

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#2940194 9-Jul-2022 20:10

Prior thread on this topic, Forgot there was one from back in Feb / march.

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=293943

richms:

That has just made the model 3 purchase look a lot less smart now...

Depends what you are after.

Model 3 is a few thousand dollars cheaper, much faster, much better handling, much more efficient, better range, better comfort, more tech, supercharging network etc.

Only real advantage's of the eT60 is having a load bed, and a bit more ground clearance, and a higher payload / tow rating. (and ute looks if you are into that)

And note that if you want a hard lid / canopy on the back, so your stuff doesn't get wet / stolen, you will be spending $2,500+ on that accessory.

But this is basically exactly the same decision that one would have between a petrol car / SUV and a diesel RWD ute, not really anything specific to electric power here.

afe66

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#2940333 10-Jul-2022 12:00

As a ute will this be exempt from fringe benefit tax?

Will companies be able to claim both clean rebate and the fringe benefit tax rebate?

While it might not suit all tradesmans types it might be interesting so the soft ute owners who buy UTEs for tax advantages ie local florist, architect, my doctor fri ND etc

blackjack17

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#2940335 10-Jul-2022 12:14

afe66: As a ute will this be exempt from fringe benefit tax?

Will companies be able to claim both clean rebate and the fringe benefit tax rebate?

While it might not suit all tradesmans types it might be interesting so the soft ute owners who buy UTEs for tax advantages ie local florist, architect, my doctor fri ND etc

Utes are not exempt from the fringe benefit tax.

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Scott3

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#2940368 10-Jul-2022 15:41

blackjack17:

afe66: As a ute will this be exempt from fringe benefit tax?

Will companies be able to claim both clean rebate and the fringe benefit tax rebate?

While it might not suit all tradesmans types it might be interesting so the soft ute owners who buy UTEs for tax advantages ie local florist, architect, my doctor fri ND etc

Utes are not exempt from the fringe benefit tax.

It is a reference to this:

https://www.ird.govt.nz/employing-staff/paying-staff/fringe-benefit-tax/types-of-fringe-benefits/employer-provided-motor-vehicles-for-private-use

Bunch of other requirements to satisfy too (sign writing on sides, not available for private use apart for travel between home and work, and travel incidental to that etc.), but when all the boxes are ticked, One can enjoy FBT free travel between home and work.

Common configuration is to use the FBT exemption on weekdays, but to pay FBT for weekends & holiday's.

Double cab utes (& Taxi's) are the only 5 seat vehicles that qualify for this. Van's or station wagons need to have any rear seats removed, or folded down, and configured such that they cannot be used (such as mounting shelves on top).

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2940371 10-Jul-2022 16:00

richms:

That has just made the model 3 purchase look a lot less smart now...

Not so sure about that given this recent T60 case...

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Scott3

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#2940378 10-Jul-2022 16:22

Hopefully SAIC they have improved their coating system's since 2018.

Handle9

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#2940379 10-Jul-2022 16:28

afe66: As a ute will this be exempt from fringe benefit tax?

Will companies be able to claim both clean rebate and the fringe benefit tax rebate?

While it might not suit all tradesmans types it might be interesting so the soft ute owners who buy UTEs for tax advantages ie local florist, architect, my doctor fri ND etc

FBT rebate? You pay FBT if the vehicle is used privately, you don’t pay if it’s only used for business. There’s no “rebate.”

Daynger

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#2940785 11-Jul-2022 18:27

First to market, sure, but its almost guaranteed to be garbage.

Still no real competition for a ICE ute until they can drive decent distance and tow a racecar or boat or camper etc.

tweake

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#2940802 11-Jul-2022 19:15

Daynger:

First to market, sure, but its almost guaranteed to be garbage.

Still no real competition for a ICE ute until they can drive decent distance and tow a racecar or boat or camper etc.

exactly, especially from a 2nd teir brand.

i don;t expect any half decent ute even if they get solid state batteries.

realistically a hybrid ute makes more sense, small diesel electric.

Daynger

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#2940860 11-Jul-2022 23:29

tweake:

Daynger:

First to market, sure, but its almost guaranteed to be garbage.

Still no real competition for a ICE ute until they can drive decent distance and tow a racecar or boat or camper etc.

exactly, especially from a 2nd teir brand.

i don;t expect any half decent ute even if they get solid state batteries.

realistically a hybrid ute makes more sense, small diesel electric.

2nd teir is a bit optimistic.

Yes a hybrid would make more sense, but i dont think there is any hybrid about that can tow what kiwis want to drag around our countryside. The reality is that if you need to tow stuff or drive long distance electric just isnt there yet.

Watched a youtube comparison on the ford lightning electric "truck" towing a camper, it didnt do well, 85 miles or so, the petrol v8 6.2l competition drove to where the lightning needed to call into a fast charger and back again with fuel to spare.

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#2940898 12-Jul-2022 08:50

Daynger:

Yes a hybrid would make more sense, but i dont think there is any hybrid about that can tow what kiwis want to drag around our countryside. The reality is that if you need to tow stuff or drive long distance electric just isnt there yet.

Watched a youtube comparison on the ford lightning electric "truck" towing a camper, it didnt do well, 85 miles or so, the petrol v8 6.2l competition drove to where the lightning needed to call into a fast charger and back again with fuel to spare.

So...this would be the reason that the brand with the most Hybrids on the road by far still has no Hybrid Hilux then? I have always wondered why they hadn't simply bundled a 2.5l Diesel and Hybrid electric motors together in a Ute...if anyone was ever going to do it, I thought it'd be them.

Makes sense, if the towing/load rates are poor.

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Scott3

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#2941062 12-Jul-2022 11:21

Few points.

- This ute isn't going to fill every use case. Range, payload & tow rating in less than hilux / ranger etc. Also only a single configuration is offered (no Single cab, no cab+, no 4x4, no Rear diff LSD / locker). Obviously it would be a poor choice for somebody looking to tow a race car the length of the country, but relatively few people do that.

- There are plenty of use cases that this ute will fit the bill. LDV is a small player in NZ, so they only need to fill a niche for the product to be viable.

For recreational towing, Existing EV's offer higher tow ratings (Polestar 2, Model Y, Ioniq 5 LR, EV6 LR), and often advantages like more power, faster fast charging, longer rated range etc. So the appeal of the eT80 is going to the presence of a tray, higher payload than SUV, ground clearance etc.

Getting a bit off topic, but feel the discussion on hybrids needs a response.

On hybrids. Mine is an old (2006) Lexus RX, and is rated for 1500kg towing. Have towed a boat roughly (7.5m race yacht) on that weight limit around the country without issue.

These days, a rav4 hybrid gets that 1500kg limit (One of the other boats in the fleet was towed with one, apparently it spends a lot of time revving it's head off up hills, but otherwise did fine). The current Lexus RX & highlander hybrid get a 2000kg limit. 2000kg is about the limit of rating for Japanese soft SUV's, regardless of rating. If you really want 3500kg towing in a hybrid, the Porsche Cayenne E-Hybrid will deliver it.

Much of our perception of (non plug in) hybrid's is based on what Toyota / Lexus is delivering.

They are planning to have a Hybrid (or electric) offering for their hilux, land cruiser Prado / 300 in the near future.

There are a couple of issues with simply dropping in their existing hybrid setup into these model's, along side a diesel engine.

1. Diesel engines are already expansive and heavy (and efficient) compared to petrol. Stack this with an expensive and heavy hybrid system, and you end up with a very expensive and heavy power train. (and efficiency gains from the hybrid system are from an already fairly efficient starting point, so not as dramatic is in a petrol car).

2. Toyota current hybrid synergy drive system is awesome in most situations, but one situation it sucks in is off road. In short, the system cannot allow traction control to be disabled, as if it lets the wheels spin fast, and then they bite onto something grippy, one of the motors in the epicyclic setup will risk overspeed and damage. Also the drive tends to be biased towards the front (my car only has an air cooled 50kW motor at the rear, which given the cooling is only intended to help for shortish period, or it will get too hot). This is fine for the soft SUV's, but not really appropriate for stuff that is currently sold with low range gearing. So they will need to come up with a new setup (and people will expect it to be really efficient like their current setup).

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#2941063 12-Jul-2022 11:21

Daynger:

2nd teir is a bit optimistic.

i was being kind ;)

Yes a hybrid would make more sense, but i dont think there is any hybrid about that can tow what kiwis want to drag around our countryside. The reality is that if you need to tow stuff or drive long distance electric just isnt there yet.

i think most of it is because they are focused on petrol's. there is not much incentive when your running a cheap to run diesel. there is hybrid trucks, mitsi have had one for a long time.

tow capacity depends on if you go diesel electric or electric as an add on. with the mitsi truck (afaik) the electric is only good enough to drive around the yard at slow speed. still use conventional gearboxes which make it less efficient. but the rivan uses an electric motor per wheel which gives it the torque required without using gearboxes. take out some of the battery and fit a small diesel (or hydrogen) charging unit might be the go.

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#2941102 12-Jul-2022 12:19

I can see this being a good option for those of us that want a Ute for things like slinging the bikes in the tray to go up the trails, or hauling a few things to the tip etc.

It's really a more urban option, isn't it?

Still not cheap, though when you consider that you can get a diesel ute for a lot less. And although Diesel fuel is costing a lit more these days, it's still cheaper than a petrol vehicle to run and there's no range anxiety (whether real or perceived).

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