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Scott3

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#309270 3-Oct-2023 22:51
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The adoption of a congestion charge in Auckland has long been discussed, but today a major political party came out with a clear intent to implement one in the near term:

"[Political Party Leader] says "$300 million sitting in an account" can be a bridge for funding Auckland infrastructure projects once the regional fuel tax is removed, and before congestion charging comes into force."

 

Source 1:18pm in today's stuff live blog https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300981416/nz-election-2023-live-act-on-cusp-of-snatching-national-stronghold-tamaki-seat-poll-shows-mahuta-at-risk-of-losing-seat

 

As with the RUC thread, this thread is in the transport category, not politics, so is for the discussion of the policy and it's impact on transport only, not the politics of it.

 

 

 

 

 

Details are scant at this point, but given it is to replace the Auckland fuel tax, its scope is likely limited to Auckland.

Could be anything at this point, quite a handful of international examples's now Singapore, London, Milan, Stockholm and Gothenburg.

 

 

 

One thing to be wary of is that many of those schemes, focus on the CBD. In my experience, Auckland CBD is far from the most congested  part of the city, so if the purpose of the scheme is to reduce congestion (not simply raise revenue), the scope would need to cover other badly congested area's (East Tamaki industrial area for example) 


 

Generally I am in favor of congestion charges. Basically the only way to "solve" traffic congestion in a large city.

 

 

 

But we do need to be aware that by changing the way we allocate our oversubscribed roads from those willing to tolerate queues / travel delays, to those willing to part with $$ could have quite a social impact. Low value trips (and potentially the poor) will essentially get priced off the road.

 

Should be an economic boon, freeing up all that time wasted in traffic, but we do need to be mindful of the social impacts.


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Scott3

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  #3138528 3-Oct-2023 22:57
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When Congestion charge's come up, comments often are: OK, but as long was we have high quality alternatives first (Public Transport, Walking & Cycling).

Realistically Auckland is not going to have world class public transport before we have run through the $300m, so please consider how we could best allocate scarce road capacity, given the current alternatives to private car travel.

 

 

 

Of course, a congestion charge will bring in big $$, which could be spent on stuff like cheaper public transport, subsidised bike purchases & repair, and whatever else we can dream up. Or the money could go to paying down debt (either central or local government) which is also badly needed.


 
 
 

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).

gzt

gzt
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  #3138529 3-Oct-2023 23:13
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The link you provided has no such text or proposal.

Scott3

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  #3138531 3-Oct-2023 23:51
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gzt: The link you provided has no such text or proposal.


You needed to scroll down, click more, then scroll down to 1:18PM.

 

Actually, I worked out how to make a direct link.

 

https://tkr.ro/e/EHawvynzQoccEUmA

 

 




Qazzy03
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  #3138536 4-Oct-2023 05:10
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I have experienced what it is like as an on foot tourist in London in congestion charged areas..

 

There was traffic but it felt quite relaxed, roomy, and it flowed. Being able to take one of the tourist double decker buses and get around some of the sites without being jammed up was great. 

 

However I don't know if the same approach would work in Auckland. As in I don't have a clue. The London Tube was a big reason people were able to get around and I definitely don't think 300 million will last for Auckland to get the required public transport in place to allow for a transition from regional fuel to congestion tax.

 

Question of admin, cost and enforcement of congestion tax. In London CCTV cameras record vehicles entering and exiting the zone. They can record number plates with a 90% accuracy rate through Automatic number plate recognition.

 

I don't live in Auckland, so not sure if there are already exists CCTV in the areas or if new cameras will need to be deployed.

 

Lastly, I assume there will be zoning for congratulation, the zones boundaries will be a debate in themselves.

 

Just like the RUC there is a lot to unpack and I think there is even more questions about implementation, impact on users, impact on administration, enforcement,  impact on poorer people, changes in community and how in heck this will all be funded, as 300 million will not go that far if it will be used for this and public transportation, including if light rail and other construction projects that are unway or planned.


gzt

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  #3138578 4-Oct-2023 07:42
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The city underground rail (CRL) will make it easier for people to reach destinations within the city from bus termination points. It will also make life easier for people who live in the inner city to get around. It will eventually deliver a huge boost to the inner city economy increasing spend in the inner city by residents, commuters and visitors alike.

Reducing traffic in the city will make it far more pleasant for residents.

Looks like both major parties agree and the mayor is keen. Looks like it will happen. When CRL is available I think it is a good time.

gzt

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  #3138581 4-Oct-2023 07:51
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There will be many details to work out like how much is it, hours of operation, weekend charges, one entry one exit, all day pass, five day, seven day, etc. I imagine at night city entertainment business will want it reduced or even removed. I think that part is not sustainable in the long term.

  #3138587 4-Oct-2023 08:37
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I genuinely don't think it will work well in Auckland for the simple matter that the city centre is the least congested part of the city. I, and many others commute across town without going anywhere near the city centre. Its take me an hour to travel 30km in the morning and 1hr 10min to travel the same 30km in the evening. 

 

Your example of East Tamaki is a prime example. I work here and the afternoon peak hour starts from about 2:30pm and doesn't finish until 6:00pm. There are many more places on the outskirts all over the city that are similarly congested but I don't think East Tamaki is one of the worst.




Dingbatt
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  #3138590 4-Oct-2023 08:51
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The “15 minute city” will sort that out. You won’t be allowed to live in one part of the city and work in another. I choose to live where I live and work where I work, so don’t try not to complain about traffic.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


ezbee
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  #3139583 4-Oct-2023 09:39
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Senecio:

 

I genuinely don't think it will work well in Auckland for the simple matter that the city centre is the least congested part of the city. I, and many others commute across town without going anywhere near the city centre. Its take me an hour to travel 30km in the morning and 1hr 10min to travel the same 30km in the evening. 

 

Your example of East Tamaki is a prime example. I work here and the afternoon peak hour starts from about 2:30pm and doesn't finish until 6:00pm. There are many more places on the outskirts all over the city that are similarly congested but I don't think East Tamaki is one of the worst.

 

 

Having repped around Auckland I would agree.

 

Mass transit is just a couple of narrow corridors and many areas well outside the center are very congested for rush hours and hours.
There is no cross flow of mass transit, so its cars, that then have to go to a central corridor to go a bit North or South.
Though you can get caught in truck congestion too.

 

While I was still puzzled as to some of the businesses that plonked themselves in the heart with expensive rental and terrible access.

 

Much of the congestion problem is far South, North, East or West of the Heart.
Not to mention most which just wants to go far around but has to go in a bit.

 

This is the rub that sinks most congestion plans as they want to put that barrier so far North, South, East or West to pay for itself.
People get horrified that their trip in their local area is going to sting them when they care nothing for Heart of City.

So rather than a thank goodness we can dump the fuel tax they realize they will pay anyway via a charge they can't avoid either.

 

Mr Brown is not exactly for mass transit, just busses stuck in same traffic, and cutting funding.
Incoming National/ACT not spendy? Unless Auckland pays?

 

This will come as truly hilarious for those faced with most of the southern rail line down for much of a year.


old3eyes
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  #3139586 4-Oct-2023 09:46
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Dingbatt:

 

The “15 minute city” will sort that out. You won’t be allowed to live in one part of the city and work in another. I choose to live where I live and work where I work, so don’t try not to complain about traffic.

 

 

I did that in the 1990s then work moved into the CBD from South Auckland  so any advantage I gained by buying close to work was removed. 





Regards,

Old3eyes


gzt

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  #3142590 4-Oct-2023 10:26
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Dingbatt: I choose to live where I live and work where I work, so don’t try not to complain about traffic.

Good point. Over the years this has become harder and harder to do partly because of rising rents (which slowly drag up rent to follow in other areas different story) and bonds and partly because of low availability making it a difficult and time consuming job to find a place.

The removal of density rules or whatever that's called is slowly changing this and delivering apartments, but in most places there's a long way to go before the quality and livability of what's available makes it a viable choice for many. It's kind of happening hope it gets there.

All that makes moving a family much harder to do when combined with the usual family stuff that makes it hard already.

MikeAqua
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  #3142592 4-Oct-2023 10:35
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old3eyes:

 

Dingbatt:

 

The “15 minute city” will sort that out. You won’t be allowed to live in one part of the city and work in another. I choose to live where I live and work where I work, so don’t try not to complain about traffic.

 

 

I did that in the 1990s then work moved into the CBD from South Auckland  so any advantage I gained by buying close to work was removed. 

 

 

I've had two jobs where work was a five-minute walk from where I lived.  It was very convenient provided it wasn't raining.

 

The supermarket was within 15 minutes too.  I'm happy to walk to a supermarket, but I'd never walk home from supermarket, so I always take the car.  When I was in Dunedin, North City New World used to let students take a trolley home.  You gave your details and a guy with van went around and collected the trolleys.  It was a good system.





Mike


Journeyman
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  #3143610 6-Oct-2023 14:04
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A congestion charge for the CBD will be the final nail in the coffin. There are already plenty of reasons not to venture into the city and this may be the one to finally turn it into a ghost town.


scuwp
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  #3143630 6-Oct-2023 14:53
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Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity - Robert J Hanlon



ezbee
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  #3143646 6-Oct-2023 15:47
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scuwp:

 

Tauranga is thinking the same:

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018905721/tauranga-proposing-road-congestion-charge

 

 

Tauranga is even more constrained than Auckland for transport avenues it seems.
You are not making some of the roads any wider for bus lanes and such either?
They are surely looking forward to turning the immigration taps up and more property development? 


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