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Earbanean

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#316202 25-Sep-2024 09:27
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We have a small flat that we rent out and are currently looking for new tenants.  The flat has an off-street carpark about 10m from the flat itself.  One potential tenant says he has a plug in hybrid car, and I'm not sure whether that makes him a no-go tenant.  i.e. is it feasible, or even legal, to charge a car outside with an extension lead of around 10m?   


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Handsomedan
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  #3286051 25-Sep-2024 09:55
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I have my EV charger on the outside of my home and charge it outside every time. 

 

It's certified and my insurance company knows about it. 

I don't see why it would be an issue. Unless you are suggesting that the charging happens on the road, with the lead being draped across the footpath/berm? 

 

 

 

 





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jonathan18
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  #3286052 25-Sep-2024 09:57
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I guess at least they asked! I’ll leave others to comment on what should be done, but thought I’d re-post this photo of what not to do…


jonathan18
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  #3286054 25-Sep-2024 10:02
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Handsomedan:

I have my EV charger on the outside of my home and charge it outside every time. 


It's certified and my insurance company knows about it. 

I don't see why it would be an issue. Unless you are suggesting that the charging happens on the road, with the lead being draped across the footpath/berm? 


 


 



The issue may be more about the length of the extension cable run, and having to have the EVSE outside/exposed.

We also charge outside using a 16A EVSE plugged into a caravan socket attached to the side of the house, with the car on our property. But the EVSE is pretty well protected and the cable run from that is no more than 6m (and no extension cord required). As per the photo I posted above, it becomes more of an issue if traveling longer distances (which will normally require an extension cord), exposing the EVSE to the elements (as it was in that case) and, as you noted, crossing over the footpath.



SteveXNZ
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  #3286084 25-Sep-2024 10:48
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A few thoughts.  Using an extension cord isn’t illegal and is certainly feasible, but it does add risk which you’ll want to mitigate:

 

  • Ensure the extension cord is extra-heavy duty, of minimum length and not coiled
  • Ensure there’s no tripping hazard
  • Ensure the plug connection is in a waterproof cover if outside/exposed
  • Ensure the flat’s wiring from the power point to the main board is in good shape and not shared with anything else.  A sustained 8-10A for hours at a time can put stress on old wiring and connections, so it would be prudent to get a sparky to check it out
  • Don't run a cable through an open window.  If necessary get a sparky to install a new plug on an external wall as close to the car park as you can.

And of course your power bill will go up.  Decide how your tenant will pay their share – putting a suitably rated energy meter on the plug could be an option.


johno1234
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  #3286137 25-Sep-2024 11:06
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Sounds like the flat is on its own title so has its own meter and the tenant will be responsible for the extra power bill. 

 

There is no issue with outdoor charging any more than there is with connecting a caravan to your house power - it's the same thing. There needs to be a proper outdoor waterproof power point and the tenant can supply their own charging cable. Preferably a 16A caravan type but even a standard 10A power point will charge a PHEV overnight. 10m cable is fine. 

 

Something like this is all that is needed, plus of course a sparky and materials to install the power point:

 

https://smartevchargers.co.nz/shop/plug-in-ev-chargers/16a-ev-charger-blue-caravan-plug/?attribute_pa_cable-type=type-2&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxsm3BhDrARIsAMtVz6OmhyYSOqvjG6b5-lB5fbafAZSfqxHMAR4WgoFM7cfmWCBaMt0-x64aAnAJEALw_wcB

 

 


Earbanean

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  #3286140 25-Sep-2024 11:17
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I guess their plan would be to plug into a bedroom power point, then out a window and down to the car.  The flat has a separate power meter so the only cost would be to the tenant.  However:

 

  • there would be a potential trip hazard as it would go across a path at the side of the house. 
  • it would need approx 10m extension cable.
  • it would just be plugged into a standard bedroom power socket. 

Also, if we accepted them knowing they have an EV to charge, with the way NZ tenancy laws work, they could potential demand that we upgrade wiring/power point. 

 

I think all these factors make it a no go and there are other tenants to choose from.  It's something I'd never considered before and we have let the flat for around 13 years.  However, I guess it's going to become more of an issue going forward as EVs become more prevalent.  So probably good to have a clear written policy.


 
 
 
 

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alasta
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  #3286201 25-Sep-2024 12:16
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I am on the committee of a residents' association that manages a large townhouse complex, and we have had occupants running extension cables out windows to charge cars.

 

We deal with bylaw breaches on a case-by-case basis but, as a general rule, if the cable is crossing common property then we would write to the occupant and ask them to cease and desist. This is partly for aesthetic reasons, but mainly to mitigate the tripping hazard. As a residents' association we are a PCBU under health & safety legislation, and I have a vague recollection that the same applies to residential landlords. 


wellygary
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  #3286233 25-Sep-2024 14:11
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alasta:

 

 but mainly to mitigate the tripping hazard. As a residents' association we are a PCBU under health & safety legislation, and I have a vague recollection that the same applies to residential landlords. 

 

 

So you'd be OK if used these to mitigate the hazard?

 


alasta
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  #3286265 25-Sep-2024 15:35
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As I said, it would be a case-by-case consideration by the committee. My personal view would be that these should not be permitted at our complex, as I think they are still a tripping hazard and we have a number of elderly residents. It's probably a moot point as the offending residents have typically run their cable down a set of steps which would preclude the use of such a device. 


RunningMan
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  #3286314 25-Sep-2024 16:58
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SteveXNZ:

 

A few thoughts.  Using an extension cord isn’t illegal and is certainly feasible, but it does add risk which you’ll want to mitigate:

 

Depending on the EVSE it can add a huge risk. If there's thermal monitoring in the plug, you are no longer monitoring the temperature of the outlet the lead is plugged into.


Scott3
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  #3286326 25-Sep-2024 17:32
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EV's are designed to be fine charging outdoors (and I have been doing so for ~3 years), so that bit is not an issue.

There are really two routes go go about this:

Gold standard: Have a wall or pedestal mounted EV charge installed on a wall or pedestal in proximity to the carpark, with feed wiring run in a trench, or in exposed conduit if there is a handy fence or wall to follow. The charger (EVSE) in the below image is $850, and the pedestal is $269, Install costs, wiring & isolator switch additional.

Ev pedestal for Tesla 

If the tenant has a type 1 plug car (i.e. ex Japan Mitsubishi Outlander), You could an untethered charger, so they can bring their own cord to suit (I have one of these and a 10m cord so it can reach our leaf regardless where it is parked in the 3 spots within our driveway).

 

 



 

Caravan Outlet: Have an outdoor socket (ideally a 16A blue caravan socket), that the tenant can purchase an appropriate cord with inline brick to suit (~$500). Means they can take it with them when they leave, and any future plug in 

 

 

 

Extension cord out a window approach:  I have charged this way on several occasion's. The main issue is that most portable charge cords only have 5m cords, and the join between the extension cord and the charge cord is not water proof. Lots of creative ways to deal with this. While extension cords are not recommended, most of the common portable charge cords will only draw 8A which is well below the 10A extension cords are rated for, so work fine. Trip hazards need to be managed. Ideally get something with a 1.5mm core, like the HPM red Extra Heavy duty Tradesman series.

 

 

 

 

 

Plug in car's are in the earily adopter stage, but over the next decade or two, as plug in car adoption grows, rental accommodation will need to accommodate them. The question for OP is if they want to be a leader or follower in this regard. Having a proper plug in car charging setup will both be good for tenant retention, and as acting as a point of difference when marketing for new tenants in the future.

Should note that most plug in car owners have a decent idea what charging setup they want, and are often willing to pay for some or all of it (often depending on how much valuable kit will vest with the landlord when the tenancy ends). We are still at a stage in NZ where most EV owners are enthusiasts and have an interest in stuff like.

I would suggest asking the tenant how they intent to charge their PHEV, then you will get a pretty good idea of what they want.

i.e.
- I plan to run a Extension cord out of that window, and behind that garden to get to the parking space.
- With your permission I would like to pay to get a outdoor socket, or proper EV charger installed...


 
 
 
 

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nic.wise
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  #3286390 25-Sep-2024 19:33
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Got one of these

 

https://oemaudio.co.nz/product/ev-power-t1-premium-charging-8acable-ds-ct-lcd-8-4/

 

a weatherproof box for it, and got an outdoor/weather proof socket on the outside of the house 

 

works great 

 

ext lead works ok, but expect the evse to only last 18 months or less. If it’s not in a weather proof box expect water ingress and .. failure. 

 

had a caravan plug, an adapter, and short ext lead initially and it lasted 18 months or so. Water ingress was the main issue. All 8A tho. Charges the leaf easily overnight. 





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz


Earbanean

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  #3286490 26-Sep-2024 08:47
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Thanks for all the great feedback. I think this time round we'll go with a non-EV tenant.  However, this has been a wake up call for an issue that we'd not considered before.  So, an upgrade in this area needs to be near the top of the list of maintenance/improvements going forward. 

 

There is a concrete path between the house and the carpark.  However, it has pipes under it for storm water that come up at a drain right next to the flat.  So a conduit for cabling adjacent to that should be relatively straight forward to put in - then appropriate connections at either end.


nic.wise
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  #3286494 26-Sep-2024 08:56
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If you owned the place, I'd say get a sparkie to install a proper outdoor plug (10A, but get them to run 16A wire) by the letterbox. Then... problem solved.





Nic Wise - fastchicken.co.nz


jonathan18
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  #3286498 26-Sep-2024 09:11
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nic.wise:

 

...

 

ext lead works ok, but expect the evse to only last 18 months or less. If it’s not in a weather proof box expect water ingress and .. failure. 
...

 

 

Longevity outside really depends on many variables: to contrast with your example, we had a similar OEM Audio (16A) EVSE outside for nearly six years; it simply hung down from the plug, but it was somewhat protected by the caravan plug being on the side of the house. It was still working perfectly when we sold it (and this was only as we needed a T2 EVSE). Based on this experience, we've not provided the new one with any more protection from the elements, but have put it in a bracket and added a 'socket' for the charging plug.

 

I totally get that other set-ups are more likely to lead to faster degradation - eg the set-up in the photo I posted near the top of this thread, where the EVSE is just sitting out in the open. 


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