Israel Folau saga.

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#2264422 25-Jun-2019 19:42

dafman:

The bible also says, among other nonsense, that men who rape unmarried woman are obliged to marry them, children that curse their parents should be put to death and fathers are free to sell their daughters into slavery.

Why is it that modern day fundamentalists obsess over references to homosexuality claiming this as literal truth, yet blantently ignore many other, clearly as balmy, commandments?

Jesus died for their sins so they could pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow. That's why the prohibition on pork, shellfish etc, no longer apply.

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#2264519 25-Jun-2019 20:02

Shadowfoot:

dafman:

The bible also says, among other nonsense, that men who rape unmarried woman are obliged to marry them, children that curse their parents should be put to death and fathers are free to sell their daughters into slavery.

Why is it that modern day fundamentalists obsess over references to homosexuality claiming this as literal truth, yet blantently ignore many other, clearly as balmy, commandments?

Jesus died for their sins so they could pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow. That's why the prohibition on pork, shellfish etc, no longer apply.

Funny, they've chosen to carry forward the fire and brimstone from the OT but completely overlooked the 'Jesus being a chill dude who basically said everyone probably pretty solid deep down and they need to do things in their own time' thing.

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#2264660 25-Jun-2019 21:21

mm1352000:

dafman:

The bible also says, among other nonsense, that men who rape unmarried woman are obliged to marry them, children that curse their parents should be put to death and fathers are free to sell their daughters into slavery.

Why is it that modern day fundamentalists obsess over references to homosexuality claiming this as literal truth, yet blantently ignore many other, clearly as balmy, commandments?

As I understand it, Christians have different attitudes to the old testament (the source of your examples) when compared to the new testament (the source of Folau's quote). In short: new supercedes old.

Aa in cherry picking?

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#2264670 25-Jun-2019 21:41

tdgeek:

mm1352000:

dafman:

The bible also says, among other nonsense, that men who rape unmarried woman are obliged to marry them, children that curse their parents should be put to death and fathers are free to sell their daughters into slavery.

Why is it that modern day fundamentalists obsess over references to homosexuality claiming this as literal truth, yet blantently ignore many other, clearly as balmy, commandments?

As I understand it, Christians have different attitudes to the old testament (the source of your examples) when compared to the new testament (the source of Folau's quote). In short: new supercedes old.

Aa in cherry picking?

The old testament religion is called Judaism.

The new testament religion is called Christianity.

But yes cherry picking as in people generally choose whatever they want to use, that's been the norm since the beginning of time isn't it.

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#2264674 25-Jun-2019 21:59

Batman:

The old testament religion is called Judaism.

The new testament religion is called Christianity.

But yes cherry picking as in people generally choose whatever they want to use, that's been the norm since the beginning of time isn't it.

The Old Testament forms part of Christianity however many of the teachings are superseded by, expanded on and confirmed in the New testament and the teachings of Christ

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2264698 25-Jun-2019 22:58

dafman:

The bible also says, among other nonsense, that men who rape unmarried woman are obliged to marry them, children that curse their parents should be put to death and fathers are free to sell their daughters into slavery.

Why is it that modern day fundamentalists obsess over references to homosexuality claiming this as literal truth, yet blantently ignore many other, clearly as balmy, commandments?

Exactly this. The bible clearly says never judge others because ***everyone has their own vice.

Matthew 7:3-5 New International Version (NIV)

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

John 8:3-11 New International Version (NIV)

3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared

***

Romans 3:10-12 New International Version (NIV)

10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11     there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”

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#2264700 25-Jun-2019 23:07

MikeB4:

Batman:

The old testament religion is called Judaism.

The new testament religion is called Christianity.

But yes cherry picking as in people generally choose whatever they want to use, that's been the norm since the beginning of time isn't it.

The Old Testament forms part of Christianity however many of the teachings are superseded by, expanded on and confirmed in the New testament and the teachings of Christ

My understanding is that christianity refers to people who acknowledge they are hopeless because of something called sin and the only way out of hopelessness is to accept that someone called jesus who because he was the son of god was able to remain sinless and sacrificed himself as the way out of hopelessness.

That is kinda new testament stuff.

My understanding is that christianity is nothing else but the above. Everything that has added value is not part of the fundamental tenet of christianity as far as my understanding goes.

The issue with this hopelessness creates a paradox where it is easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man (who is not able to feel hopelessness) to be saved.

Matthew 19

23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

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#2264703 26-Jun-2019 00:05

This article is very good touching on the employment law. Basically it says the exact matter is untested as these cases generally settle.

The closest examples are those around political speech. Well worth a read.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/one-unresolved-legal-question-at-the-heart-of-israel-folaus-case/news-story/387b057b25ab325d35ea494b9ed087b3

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#2264706 26-Jun-2019 01:13

surfisup1000:
Dafman is trying to make the claim that the bible is not anti-homosexual. I just couldn't let that slide!

No I'm not. The claim I am making is that the bible does not mention hell when referencing homosexuality, so the claim that Folau was quoting the bible is not true. In fact Rugby Australia gave him the option to remove the reference to hell and replace it with the direct bible quote, but Folau declined.

I fully agree with you that the bible is anti-homosexual. It is also pro-slavery and condones rape by stating that a man who rapes an unmarried woman is obliged to marry her. Agree?

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#2264719 26-Jun-2019 06:29

Handle9:

This article is very good touching on the employment law. Basically it says the exact matter is untested as these cases generally settle.

The closest examples are those around political speech. Well worth a read.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/one-unresolved-legal-question-at-the-heart-of-israel-folaus-case/news-story/387b057b25ab325d35ea494b9ed087b3

Excellent article. Thanks for posting @Handle9.

Handle9

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#2264720 26-Jun-2019 06:35

Kiwifruta:
Handle9:

This article is very good touching on the employment law. Basically it says the exact matter is untested as these cases generally settle.

The closest examples are those around political speech. Well worth a read.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/one-unresolved-legal-question-at-the-heart-of-israel-folaus-case/news-story/387b057b25ab325d35ea494b9ed087b3

Excellent article. Thanks for posting @Handle9.

You're welcome. I am still curious what homosexuals have to repent.

I didn't choose to be heterosexual, nor did most homosexuals choose their orientation.

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#2264721 26-Jun-2019 06:45

Handle9:
Kiwifruta:

Handle9:

This article is very good touching on the employment law. Basically it says the exact matter is untested as these cases generally settle.

The closest examples are those around political speech. Well worth a read.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/one-unresolved-legal-question-at-the-heart-of-israel-folaus-case/news-story/387b057b25ab325d35ea494b9ed087b3

Excellent article. Thanks for posting @Handle9.

You're welcome. I am still curious what homosexuals have to repent.

I didn't choose to be heterosexual, nor did most homosexuals choose their orientation.

The answer is lengthy and I haven't had the time yet to make that reply.

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#2264722 26-Jun-2019 06:50

Presumably pork-eaters come under the heading of "uncleanness".

I'm concerned about "variance" and "emulation" though. You would think they're mutually exclusive... if you're going to avoid variance, you have to emulate the normal.

And Folau himself is in peril of "hatred".

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#2264740 26-Jun-2019 07:40

dafman:
surfisup1000:

Dafman is trying to make the claim that the bible is not anti-homosexual. I just couldn't let that slide!

No I'm not. The claim I am making is that the bible does not mention hell when referencing homosexuality, so the claim that Folau was quoting the bible is not true. In fact Rugby Australia gave him the option to remove the reference to hell and replace it with the direct bible quote, but Folau declined.

I fully agree with you that the bible is anti-homosexual. It is also pro-slavery and condones rape by stating that a man who rapes an unmarried woman is obliged to marry her. Agree?

In some bits it definitely appears to, and in some bits it definitely does not!

So what to make of it!

My take is that it is a very accurate account of *history - there is no hiding all the dirty laundry of the doggone days which paints a barbaric Game of Thrones way of life. That was just how it was in those days.

Then in new testament, also no doctoring of documents to hide any dirty laundry. It also clearly accounts the norms of society in 1-400 CE (AD) where women were poorly treated, the men were told to honour women; when slavery was still present, people were told to treat their slaves better. When bickering and political ambitions were nasty, people were told to respect each other.

in 2000 CE? well we have continuing accounts of people doing the right thing - people like Mother Theresa for example.

Obviously if you are stuck in the ways of the barbarians then you would be subject to the laws of the current times. Well, you should!

People are using an account of middle eastern history to tell them how to live in current times, then they are not very smart.

As I said, the real tenet of christianity from my research and understanding is the theme of hopelessness. It is an ideology of hope for the hopeless, the slaves really believed in their god, that there is a better world out there when they die. It gave them the will to live, the strength to help each other. But people always give added value to things. Use religion in kingdoms/schools/church to oppress and control the peasants/students/underlings. Use it to get rich. Use it for sexual gratification. Use it to feel good about themselves. But that is human nature, religion or not, they will find a way or a justification/excuse to get their gratification.

Anyway, I digressed.

*The early books of the old testament was initially an oral text, memorised by scribes of a middle eastern group of people called the israelites. When that middle eastern group was exiled into captivity they put ink to paper the oral tradition (of about 6000BCE-400BCE) and there you have the early books of the bible. It was written to give that group an identity of who they were, while lost in captivity. The scribes continued to write until the end of the old testament (400BCE-200BCE). You should really call the old testament - the history book of the jewish people.

New testament is completely different kind of writings (50-200CE), not written by middle eastern scribes. NT is a collection of letters from many different people, saying different things to different people, compiled by Greeks and made into a Roman religion by one of the Caesars (not Nero!). But they were supposed to have been saying the common thing of a guy called jesus who was/is here to give hope to everyone. No one knows the actual authors of many letters, but the main writer of many letters was a reformed jewish religious official called Paul who told people that he at first killed followers of jesus because he believed in the old testament, and something happened to him and he became a follower because the jesus thing is real. You could probably call the new testament Paul's Testament!

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#2264804 26-Jun-2019 09:30

The secret of a successful religion is when an unscrupulous wealthy few convince a gullible not-so-wealthy many that they need to give up their cash. And what better demonstration of this than the last few days.

If you donated to Folau this week, and you are reading this, you've been well and truly had (honest opinion).

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