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6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2810952 11-Nov-2021 07:51

Handle9:

It’s funny how a team that is world test champions, has made consecutive 50 over World Cup finals and now is in the T20 final is “lucky.”

This is a great team doing great things. Enjoy it because it won’t go on forever.

No doubt. But a lot of lucky things went for us and against us tonight. The bairstow knee on the toblerone reminded me of Boults foot which essentially lost us the WC (but so did many other unlucky things).

Jos Butler got luck twice with chopping over his stumps rather on.

There were so many freakish things.

I really thought we had given them the game with the ~25 runs we gave away with unusual for us, bad fielding and bowling. That over from Boult was when they took off, started with his 5 wides when he bounced Conway at keep lol.

I do think we could have better t20 selections. For the most part the game is about who can score run fast, which means having more than Santner at #7, we should have a couple more heavy hitters and Santner should be down at #9 if hes playing. I think Jamison needs time with the bat to show hes not just a bowler, in fact I rate him equally. He was great for Auck prior. Very clean driver of the ball, similar to Mitchell who carried Canterbury in the 19/20 domestic T20 and deserved his spot in this WC (I hoonestly thought Larsen and Williamson would be too defensive to select him). Also surprised they went with Milne, who showed hsi worth both in the BBL and IPL. Hes come a long way to get back from serious injury. It would b awesome when Boult/Southee retire if we could have Milne and Fergusson as our blazing guns on our green pitches with Jamieson being 3rd change, Im not sure who would be 4th, Possible Ben Sears from Welli, hes also extremely quick. As long as we have Santner sorts who can do very long spells trying up an end as quicks tend to last 6-7 over spells. But its worked for many a team. I think Milne is more wiley and Fergusson more share pace, but Ferrgusson was last years premier white ball bowler, Sodhi not far behind, wicket taking that is. But we have many a young bowler like Ben Sears coming through.

Well, Conway did his best, Mitchell looked to be just not quite cutting it until Nesham came on and Mitchell finished it off, just as we got to our tail with Santner coming on. Id like one more batsman just for depth.

But what a game, we were well and truely gone at 15rpo required a long way out.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2810962 11-Nov-2021 08:14

TeaLeaf:
Handle9:

It’s funny how a team that is world test champions, has made consecutive 50 over World Cup finals and now is in the T20 final is “lucky.”

This is a great team doing great things. Enjoy it because it won’t go on forever.

No doubt. But a lot of lucky things went for us and against us tonight. The bairstow knee on the toblerone reminded me of Boults foot which essentially lost us the WC (but so did many other unlucky things).

Jos Butler got luck twice with chopping over his stumps rather on.

There were so many freakish things.

I really thought we had given them the game with the ~25 runs we gave away with unusual for us, bad fielding and bowling. That over from Boult was when they took off, started with his 5 wides when he bounced Conway at keep lol.

I do think we could have better t20 selections. For the most part the game is about who can score run fast, which means having more than Santner at #7, we should have a couple more heavy hitters and Santner should be down at #9 if hes playing. I think Jamison needs time with the bat to show hes not just a bowler, in fact I rate him equally. He was great for Auck prior. Very clean driver of the ball, similar to Mitchell who carried Canterbury in the 19/20 domestic T20 and deserved his spot in this WC (I hoonestly thought Larsen and Williamson would be too defensive to select him). Also surprised they went with Milne, who showed hsi worth both in the BBL and IPL. Hes come a long way to get back from serious injury. It would b awesome when Boult/Southee retire if we could have Milne and Fergusson as our blazing guns on our green pitches with Jamieson being 3rd change, Im not sure who would be 4th, Possible Ben Sears from Welli, hes also extremely quick. As long as we have Santner sorts who can do very long spells trying up an end as quicks tend to last 6-7 over spells. But its worked for many a team. I think Milne is more wiley and Fergusson more share pace, but Ferrgusson was last years premier white ball bowler, Sodhi not far behind, wicket taking that is. But we have many a young bowler like Ben Sears coming through.

Well, Conway did his best, Mitchell looked to be just not quite cutting it until Nesham came on and Mitchell finished it off, just as we got to our tail with Santner coming on. Id like one more batsman just for depth.

But what a game, we were well and truely gone at 15rpo required a long way out.

It was that Jordan over that made the difference. Those pies that he was bowling helped us. It really look like England had it in the bag till that over when Neesham came in.

I was thinking the same thing when that Bairstow not out catch on the boundary was the same energy as Trent Boult one back in the 2019 WC Final.

I didn’t rate Mitchell as an opener before the World Cup as I thought it should have been Conway but I knew Mitchell did very well at No 3 in the recent Super Smash so I had faith in him.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2810971 11-Nov-2021 08:42

Dochart:

It was that Jordan over that made the difference. Those pies that he was bowling helped us. It really look like England had it in the bag till that over when Neesham came in.

I was thinking the same thing when that Bairstow not out catch on the boundary was the same energy as Trent Boult one back in the 2019 WC Final.

I didn’t rate Mitchell as an opener before the World Cup as I thought it should have been Conway but I knew Mitchell did very well at No 3 in the recent Super Smash so I had faith in him.

Yep him and Woakes gave the game away to be fair, not intentionally obviously. So much for being a finishing expert.

Yeah I agree re Mitchell opening and I still think Conway should be, but he did play amazing at 3 for Cant in the SS last year, he impressed me a lot with his determination.

Finn Allen needs another season to prove it wasnt a one off, but man hes like a Phillipe for Aus or Jos Butler for Eng, those freakish T20 players.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2810974 11-Nov-2021 08:56

TeaLeaf:
Dochart:

It was that Jordan over that made the difference. Those pies that he was bowling helped us. It really look like England had it in the bag till that over when Neesham came in.

I was thinking the same thing when that Bairstow not out catch on the boundary was the same energy as Trent Boult one back in the 2019 WC Final.

I didn’t rate Mitchell as an opener before the World Cup as I thought it should have been Conway but I knew Mitchell did very well at No 3 in the recent Super Smash so I had faith in him.

Yep him and Woakes gave the game away to be fair, not intentionally obviously. So much for being a finishing expert.

Yeah I agree re Mitchell opening and I still think Conway should be, but he did play amazing at 3 for Cant in the SS last year, he impressed me a lot with his determination.

Finn Allen needs another season to prove it wasnt a one off, but man hes like a Phillipe for Aus or Jos Butler for Eng, those freakish T20 players.

When Guptill retires from T20i Finn Allen should take his place if his form is still good by then.

Hopefully in 4-5 years time we have some decent players in domestic cricket. This Blackcaps era isn’t going to last a lot longer depending on when Williamson, Southee, Boult, Conway etc retire.

If we can have these players like Williamson and Conway for another 10 years they will be in their early 40’s and this was around the same time Misbah ul Haq retired.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2810975 11-Nov-2021 09:02

Looking at the Bastman stats tables, I think fairly obvious Jos Butler was batsman of the tournament. Number 1 in every major field.

I think NZ have more chance of beating Aus than Pak. In saying that, a fully fit NZ might do better this time. I think with 1 or 2 changes for the Final we have a really good chance of winning another Trophy. Given we were runners up wc2015 (could have gone either way) and we were essentially drawn in WC19 ODI, our glory years are converting into tangibles, like best team in the world, best batsman in the world etc. But a t20 trophy sure would be nice.

The english coach was laughing gleefully 7 overs out, he didnt look so happy with 4 runs left from 7, in fact he looked shattered. Defeats like that can be quite demoralising. I wonder if Morgan will get any blame given he didnt bowl everybody or if it will all fall on the final 2 overs. Sucks to lose like that, but about time one went our way.

Now I am pumped for the final. I hope its Aus, but either way it should be a great match.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2810976 11-Nov-2021 09:09

TeaLeaf:
Looking at the Bastman stats tables, I think fairly obvious Jos Butler was batsman of the tournament. Number 1 in every major field.

I think NZ have more chance of beating Aus than Pak. In saying that, a fully fit NZ might do better this time. I think with 1 or 2 changes for the Final we have a really good chance of winning another Trophy. Given we were runners up wc2015 (could have gone either way) and we were essentially drawn in WC19 ODI, our glory years are converting into tangibles, like best team in the world, best batsman in the world etc. But a t20 trophy sure would be nice.

The english coach was laughing gleefully 7 overs out, he didnt look so happy with 4 runs left from 7, in fact he looked shattered. Defeats like that can be quite demoralising. I wonder if Morgan will get any blame given he didnt bowl everybody or if it will all fall on the final 2 overs. Sucks to lose like that, but about time one went our way.

Now I am pumped for the final. I hope its Aus, but either way it should be a great match.

I think Aus will be a better option as Pakistan know how to play in these conditions and they haven’t lost a t20i match in the UAE in a very long time.

I’m worried that we will lose to Australia again in a final. Australia seems to be the Blackcaps kyrponite.

throbb

675 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2811005 11-Nov-2021 10:28

Dochart: @Handle9

9 out of 10 times I would have expected England to win with the team that they have but tonight it went to NZ way. Lucky we won the toss tonight, could have been a different result if we didn’t.

Let’s hope NZ can win the toss and win the final.

The toss didn't really affect this game, there was no dew, which is what makes batting second easier. The pitch was just as difficult for the NZ innings as the English. But still want to win the toss in the Final, as the dew arrives more often than not.

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TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2811047 11-Nov-2021 11:21

Dochart:

I think Aus will be a better option as Pakistan know how to play in these conditions and they haven’t lost a t20i match in the UAE in a very long time.

I’m worried that we will lose to Australia again in a final. Australia seems to be the Blackcaps kyrponite.

NZ are now the 2nd most successful team at making finals in cricket competitions. 11 times with Australia 12.

Id really love to beat Aus, just to rub in how rubbish they have become with a massive cricket scene and player pool compared to NZ.:-)

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2811070 11-Nov-2021 12:22

TeaLeaf:
Dochart:

I think Aus will be a better option as Pakistan know how to play in these conditions and they haven’t lost a t20i match in the UAE in a very long time.

I’m worried that we will lose to Australia again in a final. Australia seems to be the Blackcaps kyrponite.

NZ are now the 2nd most successful team at making finals in cricket competitions. 11 times with Australia 12.

Id really love to beat Aus, just to rub in how rubbish they have become with a massive cricket scene and player pool compared to NZ.:-)

Are you including quarter and semi finals in that total.

If your talking about finals only we only been there 6 times and have won 2/6 attempts.

ODI Cricket World Cup: 2015 (Lost to Aus) and 2019 finals (tie with Eng but lost on boundary count back )

Champions Trophy: 2000 Final (Beat India) and 2009 Final (Lost to Australia)

T20 World Cup: 2021 final

ICC Test Championship: 2021 Final (Beat India)

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2811080 11-Nov-2021 13:11

Dochart: Are you including quarter and semi finals in that total.

Yep. Thats the stat they popped up. Which has been dramatically bolstered since Kane became our Test #3 in 2014, since then he has averaged ~66 in tests vs ~42ish when he was thrown around between opening and #8. I think Mccullum set the stage with do or die attitude and Kane has taken some of that on board with his extreme consverstaive style which has landed nicely in th middle giving us a result more times than not (aside from WC19, but let the ICC, I mean Poms, claim that one lol).

When I get some time, I'll go through the retiring schedule and pop some names in that I think will be replacements and throw some players yet to be given a chance.

Cant wait for Super Smash, I enjoy the BBL, but our domestic I find more interesting due to a bunch of players just starting to evolve.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2811437 12-Nov-2021 09:00

Conway injured and not playing in the final or the India tour.

Blackcaps need to win the toss and bowl to have a good chance at winning. There was a stat that pop up that team batting second in Dubai so far in this T20 World Cup has won 11 times in Dubai and there was only one time a team won when batting first.

I hope Siefert and the rest of the guys do well in the final against Australia. We have to win this one on Monday morning don’t want Australia winning this year and next year T20 World Cup in Australia.

maoriboy

1007 posts

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Trusted

#2811547 12-Nov-2021 13:01

Of all the dumb ways to rule yourself out of the final, punching your bat after getting out and breaking a finger has to pretty high up there. So who replaces Conway in the lineup?

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2811554 12-Nov-2021 13:20

maoriboy:
Of all the dumb ways to rule yourself out of the final, punching your bat after getting out and breaking a finger has to pretty high up there. So who replaces Conway in the lineup?

Siefert. I thought Latham should have been picked over Siefert in the squad. He was doing well in the Bangladesh T20’s.

Handle9

11386 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2811955 12-Nov-2021 20:06

Sweet. I got tickets for the final. Super excited.

Handle9

11386 posts

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Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2811998 12-Nov-2021 22:33

Dochart:
maoriboy:
Of all the dumb ways to rule yourself out of the final, punching your bat after getting out and breaking a finger has to pretty high up there. So who replaces Conway in the lineup?

Siefert. I thought Latham should have been picked over Siefert in the squad. He was doing well in the Bangladesh T20’s.

The team was picked before the Bangladesh series.

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