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TeaLeaf

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#228594 13-Jan-2018 14:26

Seriously I dont know how NZ keeps winning with Larsen and WIlliamson playing lottery with below average players like Santner, Astle and Latham at home.

Replace Santner with De Gron Holme. Replace Astle with George Worker. Replace Latham with Phillips. Hugely deep and powerful batting lineup, along with all the bowling options we need.

Flappn plonkers, our best players in the history of NZ cricket and larsen keeps selecting the nuffies.

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#1938147 13-Jan-2018 14:47

Who the .... is Larsen?!

TeaLeaf

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#1938161 13-Jan-2018 15:23

Geektastic: Who the .... is Larsen?!

Gavin Larsen, NZ selector.

Pakistan were on 9 wins in a row and NZ plays lottery with its line up and gets lucky with the weather. Not this game.

We could have an extremely strong T20 based ODI squad that bats really deep and have 4 genuine bowlers and a Munro/Williamson to finish off the 5th. Its more important to score runs in the short game and NZ is selecting absolute nobodies in the batting front, or 1st class players like Nicholls etc. We use to be #1 ODI and #T20 and now we are 3rd and 1st. We need to bat deep and treat quality teams with less testing out our players, save that for WI, Bangers etc, I just feel we have gotten very lucky with Pakistan and the rain this tour and we should not be selecting 2 spinner all rounders that suck at both batting and bowling.

TeaLeaf

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#1938162 13-Jan-2018 15:25

And Santner just dropped a sitter letting off a 55avg batsman, Santner has to go, hes a joke. Scored 6 and just dropped one of the best in the world that even an average non cricket person could catch.

Vettori only worked because he had flight and numbers of overs, eventually he looked good, but really he wasnt that special and Santner aint close to Vettori.

Luckily Taylor just took the catch Santner just dropped.

TeaLeaf

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#1938166 13-Jan-2018 15:35

Boult on fire, taking out two of the best batsmen in ODIs in the world and one dropped sitter by Santner.

TeaLeaf

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#1938171 13-Jan-2018 15:50

And another. That would be 4 already if it wasnt for Santner.

TeaLeaf

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#1938176 13-Jan-2018 16:20

16/6 vs one of the most in form teams in the world. WT....

Geeze who cares if we are playing with 3 absolute nuffies at this rate.

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Geektastic

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#1938181 13-Jan-2018 16:58

Ah, I know Gary Larsen but not this fellow.

BlinkyBill

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#1938235 13-Jan-2018 18:43

I dunno, seemed like a straightforward win to the ‘Caps to me. Maybe Larsen knows a bit more than ‘Leaf.

floydbloke

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#1938269 13-Jan-2018 19:40

Geektastic:

Ah, I know Gary Larsen but not this fellow.

I miss The Far Side

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

nzkc

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#1938275 13-Jan-2018 19:53

BlinkyBill: I dunno, seemed like a straightforward win to the ‘Caps to me. Maybe Larsen knows a bit more than ‘Leaf.

The 10 wins in a row, albeit at home, would suggest so. I'm personally enjoying watching the Blackcaps lately (not just this season....we've been getting better for a while). And we seem to have depth which is something we have always lacked.

Inphinity

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#1938372 13-Jan-2018 20:46

Geektastic:

Ah, I know Gary Larsen but not this fellow.

Gavin Larsen was a key part of NZ's 'dibbly-dobbler allrounder' brigade through the 90s, along with the likes of Chris Harris. Guys who were rarely going to set the world on fire, but consistently turned in decent performances. Larsen got the nickname The Postman, because he always delivered - in his case, he delivered good economical spells with a few wickets. He has the third-best career economy rate (3.76) in NZ's ODI history (excluding those who bowled <2000 deliveries), behind Hadlee and Chatfield.

As to the OPs point... Latham is one of if not the best gloveman in the country in many opinions (and demonstrated in his performances), and averages 34 with the bat. Yes, he's had a relatively lean home summer so far, but it wasn't long ago he made 103*, 38 and 65 in India. Even in todays game, 35 was comparatively good - only Williamson, Taylor, and Guptill got more from either side, and let's face it, it wouldn't be hard to argue those 3 are right up there as far as NZ batsmen go. You've not called for Nicholls to be dropped (and I'm not saying he should be at all), but he's a specialist batsman with an average only 2 higher than Latham.

Santner has 4/88 off 22 overs for the home summer so far, which I must say is not bad. He's there as a bowler, no way he warrants a place as a specialist batsman. I do think, unless one of them can hold their place as a batsman, that it's hard to justify both Santner and Astle (who has 7/150 off 28 this summer) in the XI, so I agree in that if De Grandhomme is fit and ready, Id play him in place of one of these two - which one may depend how likely the pitch is to take turn.

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Handle9

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#1938403 13-Jan-2018 22:35

Yep let's drop the 10th ranked one day bowler in the world. That would be a genius move.

TeaLeaf

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#1938497 14-Jan-2018 11:15

Latham averages 22 at home, you wouldnt get selected for Bangladesh. He can only perform against spin. Period. Listen to even commentators. His glove work is fair, its not great, its fair. We have so many other better batsmen and keepers.

We go from extreme rage in our openers, Munro and Gil to class to piss weak blockers in Latham, Santner, Astle all way down to Southee.

If we replace Latham with Phillips, Astle with George worker we have a very strong aggressive batting line complemented by the class of Williamson, Taylor, Nicholls all the way to 8.

Keeping in mind De Grone Holme will return and is a far better batsman than Santner, as for Astle, i just dont see the point of a weaker version of Santner. I know its just testing out the squad, but we shouldnt be doing this against the best teams, ok we are winning, but trust me Pakistan are FAR better than they have shown, look at their batsman and bowling averages.

Santner is only 10 due to being in the Blackcaps, currently 3rd but should be 2nd by end of home season. He never saves us with the bat, he only gets wickets at the tail. De Gron Holme has to come back in with his average and 1st class record with the bat and his fair performance with the ball. He does one thing very well and the other fair. Santner just does both fair. De Gron Holme has won us matches, Santner has been there to watch.

If we are to pursue this Santner fad, we at least need Phillips to replace Latham to give us batting power and De gron Holme to come in prior to Santner to back up that batting power, then Santner, then Southee another power player (better than most realise). We can get a team that bats very well all the way to 8 and bowls very well to 4th bowler and Santner can slow the run rate, but personaly Munro is taking more wickets as a part timer, so Id just leave Santner out and chuck George Worker in there so we basically bat to 9. That way if the opening aggression doesnt work and Taylor and Williamson both have an off day, we still have 5 batsmen left and the bowling attack to back up 350 scores. 250 just isnt good enough against Australia.

The Far Side is brilliant :-), Gavin Larsen is a bit like that as a selector.

TeaLeaf

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#1938498 14-Jan-2018 11:24

nzkc:

BlinkyBill: I dunno, seemed like a straightforward win to the ‘Caps to me. Maybe Larsen knows a bit more than ‘Leaf.

The 10 wins in a row, albeit at home, would suggest so. I'm personally enjoying watching the Blackcaps lately (not just this season....we've been getting better for a while). And we seem to have depth which is something we have always lacked.

We have depth in the country but not in the squads being the selected, I agree thats my whole point. For the first time in NZ history we have far more players than spots. So make hay while the sun shines.

I think if Larsen is testing players, Astle has had a go, Latham has proven he cant play place on our home wickets only spin abroad, Santner has had far too many oppurtunities and to be there as a batsman is a joke when we have SO many good strong hitters in 1st class cricket.

So i think its time to rotate those 3 players for Phillips, Worker and clearly De Gron Holme will replace Astle or Santner.

Currently our batting line up is way to short and weak beyond 5. De Gron Holme will fix 8, Worker would be nice at 7 and Phillips to replace Latham at 6. Averaging near 40 all the way to 8 is going to make NZ no 1 AGAIN in ODIs, to match our t20 ranking.

I think its poor for the likes of Williamson NZ plays 50% of tests as some countries and you look at guys like Alaistair Cook only averaging 45 now being in the top 7 all time scorers, Williamson will unlikely get into the top 10 averaging low to mid 50s. Cook is clearly brilliant and generally openers will always average lower than your number 1 player, is the nature of facing a fresh pitch and a brand new ball, so I say good on Cook, but Id like to see Williamson get some Accolades in 7-10 years time.

tdgeek

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#1938547 14-Jan-2018 12:02

TeaLeaf:

Geektastic: Who the .... is Larsen?!

Gavin Larsen, NZ selector.

Pakistan were on 9 wins in a row and NZ plays lottery with its line up and gets lucky with the weather. Not this game.

We could have an extremely strong T20 based ODI squad that bats really deep and have 4 genuine bowlers and a Munro/Williamson to finish off the 5th. Its more important to score runs in the short game and NZ is selecting absolute nobodies in the batting front, or 1st class players like Nicholls etc. We use to be #1 ODI and #T20 and now we are 3rd and 1st. We need to bat deep and treat quality teams with less testing out our players, save that for WI, Bangers etc, I just feel we have gotten very lucky with Pakistan and the rain this tour and we should not be selecting 2 spinner all rounders that suck at both batting and bowling.

5th and 1st actually. We only have two bowlers in the ODI rankings, Santmer is 10th in the world. And 5tyh on T20

You need to get over this anti Santner ride you are on. Maybe drop Munro, he got nothing either.

BTW this is not the best team ever, we are above average at best. WI was woeful, Pakistan is a new young team, also woeful. So we beat two woeful teams over and over, means nothing.

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