Formula1 2020 Season Discussion

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#2583634 13-Oct-2020 12:51

After watching the Netflux series which told us lots about the middle teams, I find myself enjoying the action at 4 to 8 rather than just the winner which is getting a little monotonous. Bit like when Michael s. Used to win everything.

Loved the hulkinberg story of being called in at last minute qualifying 20th and finishing 8th.

Spark also let's me watch the formula 2 which I find much better than expected with winner range of winners.

Looking forward to next netflix series to see chaos of covid

Batman

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#2605548 17-Nov-2020 14:59

best quali/race of the year. i keep saying they should turn on the sprinkler at every race

Jaxson

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#2605549 17-Nov-2020 15:06

Batman:

best quali/race of the year. i keep saying they should turn on the sprinkler at every race

Yep Stroll qualified on pole with a timely combination of tyres and weather.

The natural order of things was established by midway through the race.

Was funny to see handling the transition from wet to dry meant Hamilton wore down inters to slicks and saved a pitstop.

Something has to change. I know several who were quite into F1, so a casual or more fan/spectator, who just don't even bother anymore.

It's insanely predicktable, and has been for multiple seasons if we're honest.

I personally didn't even feel Ferrari were putting up much of a fight a few years back, and Ferrari always seem to be able to grasp a loss from the clutches of victory.

This race was exciting from qualifying to the race and a lot of fun before we head into the traditional yawn fest of the flat strealised wide run off areas of the middle eastern circuits.

tdgeek

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#2605554 17-Nov-2020 15:16

Jaxson:

Something has to change. I know several who were quite into F1, so a casual or more fan/spectator, who just don't even bother anymore.

It's insanely predicktable, and has been for multiple seasons if we're honest.

Thats me. Missed the last one, watched days later. I'll watch last nights tonight maybe not. Its not scripted but its close. Its a Constructor Championship, the best cars will win and it takes time to change that order. Congrats to Mercedes but its not racing in the true sense, it makes the driver title look stupid and valueless, then you add in the favouritism as its better markreitng to support Lewis so he always gets the run of the green and his teammate doesnt. Indy, Rubens slows down to let Schummy win. Rosberg - I was x seconds in front and how can I now be 7 seconds behind??? All the time

MotoGP, Moto2 amd Moto3 are what racing is about. Moto2 race the same engine. F1 should do that, same engine

mudguard

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#2605569 17-Nov-2020 15:40

Jaxson:

Something has to change. I know several who were quite into F1, so a casual or more fan/spectator, who just don't even bother anymore.

It's insanely predicktable, and has been for multiple seasons if we're honest.

Honestly I just watch the 8 minute clips of qualifying and the race on youtube now. There isn't much point watch much else. I agree, it has to change, but it won't. We all know the answer is to crack down on aero, but they won't do it. Standardised wings, smooth bodies etc. In fact they should probably just have a spec chassis, but F1 never has as far as I know, and never will.

The other option is reverse grids or ballast. The latter worked brilliantly in the glory days of BTCC. Oh your Audi A4 keeps winning, here's some more weight.

GV27

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#2605808 18-Nov-2020 07:40

mudguard:

The other option is reverse grids or ballast. The latter worked brilliantly in the glory days of BTCC. Oh your Audi A4 keeps winning, here's some more weight.

The Audi was a big heavy AWD car so being able to add ballast didn't really slow it down - the car just worked harder to deliver more grip. In the end the AWD cars were just banned outright.

I'd prefer they went back to the old two-element wings like the most beautiful F1 car ever, the Ferrari F190/641 and got rid of the flick-ups that seem to survive every rule change.

And bring back the high-revving screams. The hybrid era is great for performance but clips of the Schumacher era with nervous front tyres and screaming V10s make them sound like garbage.

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PolicyGuy

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#2605819 18-Nov-2020 08:21

GV27:
I'd prefer they went back to the old two-element wings like the most beautiful F1 car ever, the Ferrari F190/641 and got rid of the flick-ups that seem to survive every rule change.

This.

The much simpler aero on Indycars is very similar and they are able to race wheel-to-wheel and nose-to-tail at very high speeds, completely unlike current F1 cars.

GV27:
And bring back the high-revving screams. The hybrid era is great for performance but clips of the Schumacher era with nervous front tyres and screaming V10s make them sound like garbage.

I know what you mean, but that'd be an "F1 as Historical Racing" formula.
Unfortunately, the days of normally-aspirated 18,000 rpm V10's & V12's are gone. Compared to today's power systems, they're too thirsty, too unreliable and too noisy :(

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#2605823 18-Nov-2020 08:31

Its a Constructors Championship, that means car development will always happen. They are looking at standardising the ICE and allowing constructors to have free reign within the rules on the electric side.

All I can think of is have two main races. The Constructors race and the Drivers race where the latter are in the same car

GV27

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#2605855 18-Nov-2020 09:34

PolicyGuy:

I know what you mean, but that'd be an "F1 as Historical Racing" formula.
Unfortunately, the days of normally-aspirated 18,000 rpm V10's & V12's are gone. Compared to today's power systems, they're too thirsty, too unreliable and too noisy :(

I'm starting to think that would be no bad thing. The current engines are too complex and expensive to develop and too expensive to buy.

Given we're going down the budget cap route, opening it back up to the 'up to 12 cylinders' 3L era would be a huge win for the sport, and if you force an engine market (you have to supply x many engines at a fixed price) then you get all of the benefits of the current rules but with a variety of powerplants at a much lower price.

I get that F1 has to be 'modern' and whatever but we're ultimately talking about 35kmh single seaters that look like jandals. The 'road relevance' argument for F1 never really landed for me tbh.

Oh, and add four new teams. You might actually get them if you can get engine costs and aero down to sensible levels.

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#2605858 18-Nov-2020 09:44

PolicyGuy:
Unfortunately, the days of normally-aspirated 18,000 rpm V10's & V12's are gone. Compared to today's power systems, they're too thirsty, too unreliable and too noisy :(

Too thirsty - do you know how many jet planes are needed to carry the circus around the world

Too unreliable - NA V10 unreliable compared to turbo hybrid? Lol

Too noisy - I think you haven't read one of the biggest complaints by fans - too quiet

davidcole

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#2605859 18-Nov-2020 09:46

Batman:
PolicyGuy:

Unfortunately, the days of normally-aspirated 18,000 rpm V10's & V12's are gone. Compared to today's power systems, they're too thirsty, too unreliable and too noisy :(

Too thirsty - do you know how many jet planes are needed to carry the circus around the world

Too unreliable - NA V10 unreliable compared to turbo hybrid? Lol

Too noisy - I think you haven't read one of the biggest complaints by fans - too quiet

Also F1 is supposed to drive teh R&D for regular cars....so going backwards to pure ICE cars is what historical racing series are for.

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Jaxson

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#2605866 18-Nov-2020 09:57

You have to allow opportunities for mistakes, which is where less driver aids, more pit stops etc come into it.

Plus those mistakes need to have consequences, such that there is enough time/space for other cars to pounce. That's where the driver and team skill comes into play.

You have to be able to follow, so wing design for the sport needs to ensure it doesn't disrupt the air behind too much. This is a major issue currently, with downforce apparently dropping to almost 50% at times if you are following too close. The old days of tow and slighshot slipstreams etc need to come back. Do that and you don't need the artificial DRS points etc.

Tyres can't last for ever, it needs to be a gamble if you stay out longer.

Last point for me is about racing, going fast and balancing that with being mechanically sympathetic to ensure the beast makes it home.
Fuel management and an eco focus IN THE RACE has had a negative impact, with the worst seasons seeing racing for the first 5 laps, fuel saving for most bar a few undercut type hot laps, more fuel saving/holding station and then a few fast laps at the end when it's all too late anyway.

The circus as mentioned above is where the eco focus should be, finding ways to reduce travel and amount of gear travelling, optimal routes for staging events and more efficient trucks and planes etc.
On the track you need racing and tools to adjust strategies and scenarios on the fly.

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#2605889 18-Nov-2020 10:26

davidcole:
Batman:

Too thirsty - do you know how many jet planes are needed to carry the circus around the world

Too unreliable - NA V10 unreliable compared to turbo hybrid? Lol

Too noisy - I think you haven't read one of the biggest complaints by fans - too quiet

Also F1 is supposed to drive teh R&D for regular cars....so going backwards to pure ICE cars is what historical racing series are for.

Sure, but the reasons given above are slightly suspicious

mudguard

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#2605970 18-Nov-2020 13:33

Yeah I think Toyota hit 20,000rpm which was probably the pinnacle of ICE engineering really. I'm sad in many ways, we all know the future is likely electric, but the highlight of the only Grand Prix I went to, was the sound. Oh the sound, head splitting without earplugs, and they made wonderful over run bangs and booms on the brakes that you don't hear on the TV. It made the engines seem much bigger than they were, almost supercar V8 on the brakes and these glorious high revving monsters that you could feel in your chest.

I've mentioned it before on this thread, but Chainbear has a really good YouTube article on feedback loops and how F1 needs to do something about it. The best teams attract the best sponsors, the best drivers, engineers etc etc, so they keep getting faster and faster, and it's the opposite at the other end. It's essentially like having no salary caps in team sports, or letting teams have more players than the other etc.

tdgeek

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#2605981 18-Nov-2020 13:44

mudguard:

I've mentioned it before on this thread, but Chainbear has a really good YouTube article on feedback loops and how F1 needs to do something about it. The best teams attract the best sponsors, the best drivers, engineers etc etc, so they keep getting faster and faster, and it's the opposite at the other end. It's essentially like having no salary caps in team sports, or letting teams have more players than the other etc.

Very much so. It's a teams sport, between the teams. The drivers and the public are third parties. Teams get the money, pay the money, get the prestige, and the main prize is the Constructors Championship. Can you imagine the All Blacks saying that player XYZ is our current star, marketing dream, so when you are running to score a try, pass to him so he can get all the fame? F1 to a tee

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