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#2843525 5-Jan-2022 11:50

tdgeek:

LOL, I prefer sport to fixing matches

Neutral at worst? That's fair then

Cricket is not for you then, if you think preparing the pitch for the home team is match fixing. Ind failed in NZ, NZ failed in Ind. Its a HUGE part of TEST cricket.

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#2843533 5-Jan-2022 11:59

TeaLeaf:

Regardless of getting a greater rub of the green and having the only green pitch day to bowl on, they didnt stop scoring, they had narrow escape after narrow escape but between them just kept scoring, they had intent. NZ often just stop the intent once things start to slide.

It is fairly obvious the middle is the issue. Obviously missing Williamson, but NZ could have won this if they had put on more than 70 for the final 5 wickets in the first innings. And now ~30 odd for the final 6.

NZ had plenty of luck also, seemed every other ball this innings

Its as though they swapped jerseys. Them playing great and us playing average at best thats a double hit

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#2843536 5-Jan-2022 12:08

lol Trent Boult is the most entertaining #11 of all time. Blocks it into the ground "not now, not now".

His hand eye coordination is exceptional.

WOW, what a catch, the catch to take KJ was as good as it gets, that was also top shelf.

Bangers have saved every single bit of their skill from all prior tests for this one haha. Brilliant out of nowhere.

Ebadot, zero to hero in one innings, he will be a national treasure now. His story is quite remarkeable, how he got in the team and what he was doing prior.

Look at the NZ scoreboard, next to nothing after Taylor. Imagine if we lost Williamson as well right now. Thats why we may have a dry spell, but I think the middle definitely needs a keeper who is more productive with the bat and I think if they sticking with Young, they need to only play Rachin on turning wickets and Mitchell as the all rounder.

Its GP's SR in FC that I favour and with his age will give us 10 years of continuity. Seifert was in the mix, but he doesnt have the skill set of Cleaver or GP with the bat, but possibly a better keeper. Id be going GP. I doubt NZ will try to address the issue though and give Blundell even further time to adjust to keeping at test level. For me he was a temporary fix for opening, but now I don't think NZ can afford to carry a specialist keeper (especially when his keeping hasnt been that great)

Mitchell will play the next test being a pace pitch, that should help the middle temporarily.

Blundell
Tom Blundell profile and biography, stats, records, averages, photos and videos (espncricinfo.com)

GP
Glenn Phillips profile and biography, stats, records, averages, photos and videos (espncricinfo.com)

Cleaver
Dane Cleaver profile and biography, stats, records, averages, photos and videos (espncricinfo.com)

Dochart

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#2843541 5-Jan-2022 12:20

As much as I want GP to take the gloves I think he has retired from keeping so thats why I suggested to add Cleaver in the team. Averages 42 with the bat in First Class.

But I will replace Nicholls with Chapman or GP at No 5.

If we were to change the middle order in the next test it should be:
5. GP or Chapman
6. Mitchell
7. Cleaver (wk)

This would be a decent middle order. Usually in the test squad we have No 6 as our wicketkeeper but I rate Mitchell batting highly. He seems to be our Cameron Green as he bats and bowls at 6 in the Aus Test team.

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#2843593 5-Jan-2022 12:31

Dochart: As much as I want GP to take the gloves I think he has retired from keeping so thats why I suggested to add Cleaver in the team. Averages 42 with the bat in First Class.

Yes, thats why I also considered him. Only reason Ive gone GP is, if they dont play him at keeper they will never play him, and he is way too good not to be played, add to that the age factor. Thats my reasoning, I guess also what NZ had been considering. Most of our batsmen are around 30, so thats about 5-6 years. I guess they could leave GP out until he is 30, or with his bowling improving, play him as the batsman part timer in favour of Rachin/Mitchell. Or the last option would be to replace a failing middle order player, which was going to happen last year to Nicholls, but he scored that 170 where he was dropped 6 times which kept GP out. He did make the Test team of the year last year though, he just frustrates me, I wish he was just consistent and technically a bit more adept.

1. Latham
2. YOung
3. Kane
4. Conway
5. Nicholls
6. GP
7. Cleaver (wk)
8. KJ
9. Southee
10. Wags
11 Boult

Yep that looks pretty good, and if GP's spin really does come on, then you add Rachin and Ajaz for the Sub Cont pitches, like below.

1. Latham
2. YOung
3. Kane (spin PT but wont ever bowl again)
4. Conway
5. Nicholls
6. Rachin (spin)
7. Cleaver (wk)
8. GP (spin)
9. Ajaz (spin)
10. Wags
11 Boult

TeaLeaf

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#2843656 5-Jan-2022 12:53

Its like Baz is the only one who is getting it. We are losing key players, somebody in the leadership group has to stand up ie Nicholls, Latham etc and we need players in the team who add depth in the batting. Prior we were averaging above 40 from 1 to 8. How do we get similar levels of capability.

Im not sold on Rachin either. FC avg 38, bowling 50. I think he needs to go back to FC and work on both. GP has slightly better bowling stats and scores quicker. So if Young is the opener, then Rachin can wait 5-6 years, keep him in and around the team, then when Young or Latham retires he can open.

With what we have lost, Im ok losing to Bangers, the All Blacks lost to Ireland after 100 years, it happens (then again the next year lol).

But we HAVE to find players to keep the competitive continuity, for me that means players with confidence and positive intent. Blundell is just the complete opposite of that for me. You add Cleaver, Mitchell and GP and you get Williamson back and you have a very solid middle again imo. But they need more than 1 test.

Bowling, Ben Sears is getting there, the opener for Auck looks good, we have a few we could start getting in and around the team instead of waiting until its too late.

Short term pain long term gain. Its about continuously churning out competitive teams.

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tdgeek

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#2843661 5-Jan-2022 13:02

I doubt we need more players, its how they play thats the problem. How often have we seen in innings thats got one large number, two or three nice or ok numbers, then the rest are single digits or close to that. When we get many that contribute its a great sight but its a rare sight

EDIT

And we need to get past the continual excuses, its a 450 over match over 5 days, the cream settles where it settles

TeaLeaf

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#2843683 5-Jan-2022 13:40

Dont think NZ will offer any excuses, not in their nature.

They only need a shuffle, clearly the weakness is middle order, we have the players to fix that. Blundell wont get dropped, but NZ does have 2 better batsman keepers. Rachin is possibly a bit soon. He wouldnt be playing the next match anyway, but GP has better FC batting and bowling skills. The good news is both are young which will give us continuity into rhe future.

We are blessed with batsmen in our domestic teams at the current point in time, what I hope is this last 7 years is growing the next generation, we should have u16s coming through now motivated to be the next Kane etc.

TeaLeaf

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#2843735 5-Jan-2022 13:53

I just hope this match gives the young Bangers team some real self belief, clearly they have skill, but at Test level having positive intent for 5 days is what it is all about and this is the first time Ive seen it from them.

Add a couple of the regulars back and who knows, this could be something big starting for Bang.

They talking about Tom and his captaincy. Ive not liked it regardless of having a poor record, it is a small sample size as macca says. I just hope he learns more for KW for the future.

Talks of Kane maybe not being ok for the SA series. If that happens, we most definitely need the likes of GP, Cleaver and Mitchell in the middle order. If we have any chance, we need to clean sweep that series. Then we have Eng in Eng and Pak in UAE. So we not out of the WTC yet, but its not looking great if KW is out for SA series.

tdgeek

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#2843746 5-Jan-2022 14:07

TeaLeaf:

Dont think NZ will offer any excuses, not in their nature.

They are all here!

TeaLeaf

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#2843816 5-Jan-2022 15:17

tdgeek:

TeaLeaf:

Dont think NZ will offer any excuses, not in their nature.

They are all here!

Nobody here is offering excuses. Were out played.

But wanting to solidify the middle order is an obvious point of discussion and one NZC, the captain, the coach and the selector need to reassess as it is clearly not currently work and didnt work well in India either. Plenty of talent to improve the current squad.

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tdgeek

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#2843820 5-Jan-2022 15:28

TeaLeaf:

Nobody here is offering excuses. Were out played.

But wanting to solidify the middle order is an obvious point of discussion and one NZC, the captain, the coach and the selector need to reassess as it is clearly not currently work and didnt work well in India either. Plenty of talent to improve the current squad.

To be fair you've been offering excuses all the way through. Luck (except when we often got it) players who should or shoudn't be playing, player playing the ball wrong bowling it wrong. All of them did their best, and in these 5 days it wasnt good enough

Didnt work in India? India is a better team and at home

TeaLeaf

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#2843834 5-Jan-2022 16:09

tdgeek:

To be fair you've been offering excuses all the way through. Luck (except when we often got it) players who should or shoudn't be playing, player playing the ball wrong bowling it wrong. All of them did their best, and in these 5 days it wasnt good enough

Didnt work in India? India is a better team and at home

Anybody who watched every ball of the test and the Bangers innings would agree, as did commentary, the amount of bad luck for NZ was copious and beyond anything seen before. Nobody offers that as an excuse though, in fact, Ive said, whilst they were edging consistently or NZ was bowling a no ball LBW or dropping catches, they didnt stop scoring, unlike NZ who do not have the players in the middle order to keep the runs coming. So quite the opposite of your narrative that Im offering excuses. Excuses like Bangers outplayed NZ? You really do choose which parts to fixate on not the comments that contradict your narrative.

Last time, nobody here is offering any excuses for how NZ played, nor how Bangladesh played, luck is a huge part of the game, but more importantly is riding your luck, making the most of getting away with streaky play. Much like Nicholls 170 with 6 dropped catches. he still scored 170. An absurd amount of bad luck is not an exscuse, it is simply part of the game and has no reflection on the result. It could have gone NZs way with the coin toss and likely a different result. It is even more compounded in T20. You have to use luck in cricket, every cricketer knows that.

You have a hard time understanding discussion around where the team could improve. Constructive criticism is how teams get better. And I garuntee you that is what the black caps are doing, analyzing where they could have improved, and at a higher level which players will be in the next test and later at the highest level where our youth will fit into this team.

I struggle to see the point of twisting us having opinions, talking about luck and you telling us that is called "exscuses" when everybody has said well played Bangladesh.

Try not to read into people having an opinion on the team and what happens on the field, to feed this narrative of negativity you seem to have fixated on. Come up with your own opinions on how things can improve, where we should be heading etc.

tdgeek

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#2843840 5-Jan-2022 16:22

TeaLeaf:

Anybody who watched every ball of the test and the Bangers innings would agree, as did commentary, the amount of bad luck for NZ was copious and beyond anything seen before. Nobody offers that as an excuse though, in fact, Ive said, whilst they were edging consistently or NZ was bowling a no ball LBW or dropping catches, they didnt stop scoring, unlike NZ who do not have the players in the middle order to keep the runs coming. So quite the opposite of your narrative that Im offering excuses. Excuses like Bangers outplayed NZ? You really do choose which parts to fixate on not the comments that contradict your narrative.

Last time, nobody here is offering any excuses for how NZ played, nor how Bangladesh played, luck is a huge part of the game, but more importantly is riding your luck, making the most of getting away with streaky play. Much like Nicholls 170 with 6 dropped catches. he still scored 170. An absurd amount of bad luck is not an exscuse, it is simply part of the game and has no reflection on the result. It could have gone NZs way with the coin toss and likely a different result. It is even more compounded in T20. You have to use luck in cricket, every cricketer knows that.

You have a hard time understanding discussion around where the team could improve. Constructive criticism is how teams get better. And I garuntee you that is what the black caps are doing, analyzing where they could have improved, and at a higher level which players will be in the next test and later at the highest level where our youth will fit into this team.

I struggle to see the point of twisting us having opinions, talking about luck and you telling us that is called "exscuses" when everybody has said well played Bangladesh.

Try not to read into people having an opinion on the team and what happens on the field, to feed this narrative of negativity you seem to have fixated on. Come up with your own opinions on how things can improve, where we should be heading etc.

Um well, if you say so. There is an opinion, then there is criticising everything and everyone who does not meet your run scoring, catching standards and so on. You're passionate and that's great, and your commentary is often good, but its bordering on a bad loser menatlity

There was plenty Black Caps good luck also, started with Will being ruled not out, he was out. Ending with edges, gaps galore

NB LBW? I dont follow that. Its an illegal ball, otherwise its cheating

Dropped catches? Is that luck? Its a dropped catch as I see it

tdgeek

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#2843842 5-Jan-2022 16:26

If the luck went the other way, we wont read about it, we won. Same with Lewis losing a F1 race and Title due to end of race luck. Its still in the news. If the favoured result was max losing due to bad luck, no news as the preferred person won. Psychology. Ive got my favourites too, but I recognise when they got done, there are few excuses in most sports. In cricket you have 5 days to rise to the top

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