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#1674944 21-Nov-2016 13:15

I'm big Fekitoa fan, but that was a bad tackle. Cane's was OK in my view, just bad luck for the tackled player.

Ireland were clear winners at the breakdown. We need to be much better there. I don't rate Cane that highly at the break down.

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#1674960 21-Nov-2016 13:24

MikeAqua:

I'm big Fekitoa fan, but that was a bad tackle. Cane's was OK in my view, just bad luck for the tackled player.

Ireland were clear winners at the breakdown. We need to be much better there. I don't rate Cane that highly at the break down.

I think his work at the breakdown has been better prior to the last 2 encounters and I suspect that is because the quality of the opposition has been better. I am looking forward to what happens when Todd plays again, as he is a much better and more natural pilcher of the ball, more mccaw/pocock like.

I suspect we will see more Todd going forward. I think Ardie is definitely better as an impact player.

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#1675004 21-Nov-2016 14:14

The thing is, the coaches obviously do rate Cane's ability at the breakdown, and his future potential as a leader. But what needs to be borne in mind is that end-of-year tours are also for blooding players for the future. With Bender out for the next game, do they play it safe and put Dagg at fullback (even though he is the best wing we have at the moment) and Naholo and Savea on the wings? Or take a chance on Damian McKenzie at fullback? If Dagg and Barrett are on the field at the same time there is plenty of opportunity to bring Cruden on and move Barrett back if he's not coping. Centre is a bit of a conundrum though.
I think the forward pack missed Kaino's presence, but they need someone for the future. Squire has potential to be that future.

Thank goodness Barrett was back on form this week. Put Perenara at halfback next week, with Leinert-Brown outside Barrett and the frogs won't know which way to run.

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#1675007 21-Nov-2016 14:20

Dingbatt: The thing is, the coaches obviously do rate Cane's ability at the breakdown, and his future potential as a leader. But what needs to be borne in mind is that end-of-year tours are also for blooding players for the future. With Bender out for the next game, do they play it safe and put Dagg at fullback (even though he is the best wing we have at the moment) and Naholo and Savea on the wings? Or take a chance on Damian McKenzie at fullback? If Dagg and Barrett are on the field at the same time there is plenty of opportunity to bring Cruden on and move Barrett back if he's not coping. Centre is a bit of a conundrum though.
I think the forward pack missed Kaino's presence, but they need someone for the future. Squire has potential to be that future.

Thank goodness Barrett was back on form this week. Put Perenara at halfback next week, with Leinert-Brown outside Barrett and the frogs won't know which way to run.

Yeah our centers stocks are looking decidely thin. I would be exceptionally surprised if Fekitoa plays next week, and I am still unconvinced by him in general (Yes I know he scored two tries and they were good).

Anyone know if Crotty is likely fit? I still wish they would play him at 13.

I think Cane is a really super player, he deserves an AB's spot, not a lot of doubt in my mind. The guy is a tackling machine and barely misses.

I am VERY concerned about the number of tackles we fell off lately. I haven't seen the stats as a percentage but it's worrying for me.

My gut feeling with (Aaron) Smith is that he is trying too hard, he is feeling the pressure. They need to have a Dan Carter conversation with him, around concentrating on himself first in the games, that did WONDERS for DC just prior to the World Cup, look how that turned out.

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#1675010 21-Nov-2016 14:31

As far as I know Crotty was ruled out for the remainder of the tour. Which is a shame, the form he was in.

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#1675284 22-Nov-2016 04:10

networkn:
JonnyCam:

The AB's need to dominate / attack the breakdown more so we don't need to defend so much, which pressures us into penalties.

I 100% agree with THIS. I was going to comment the same way. I don't think our forwards have been that great recently, we have relied on super quick ball. I do think our game needs to adapt to teams that want to compete at the breakdown, an area we used to be much better at. I know it's a tactic to not compete, and if both teams aren't really competing it's fine, but against Ireland we should have competed, and a lot better. Ardie was trying, but ultimately not well enough (or at least not enough assistance).

How does that make sense? Getting quick ball is a sign of the cleanout work of the forwards, no?

The Northern Hemisphere teams have always been collectively superior at slowing down ruck ball. It's a big part of their tactics in defense. We do it as well, but not as often and we focus more on getting up and back into the line quickly. They are generally just bigger, less mobile players.

In my opinion Cane has only gone up in the estimation of our coaching staff over his last few games. Over the last few years he has become closer to the player they want him to be. Look at the size he has out on, something Ardie has been unable to do to the same extent.

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#1675813 23-Nov-2016 08:50

Fekitoa gone for 1 week (reduced from 2 for immediate apology)

The Irish times report it as:

"Disciplinary chiefs have admitted that Malakai Fekitoa should not have been on the field to score the winning try in New Zealand’s 21-9 victory over Ireland." which seems to be stretching the truth somewhat. There would have been another player in place I'm sure if not Fekitoa.

It's odd that the judiciary often say something has reached the red card threshold when the player was given a yellow or just a penalty on the field. A disconnect between the referees / AR & the judiciary perhaps. I guess they don't have to make a split second decision and have multiple replays. In this case, they could have used the TMO who may have advised red card, but the AR said yellow to Peyper.

I also find it funny that you get kudos & time off the ban for god conduct at the disciplinary hearing. These guys aren't animals, they are professional players. I'm sure every one of them is quiet & apologetic at the hearing, while being coached by high priced lawyers.

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#1675815 23-Nov-2016 08:53

And Cane cleared of the charge. Good Job. Unfortunate for a player to be left prone on the ground like that, but it's just that - unfortunate. No matter what British / Irish supporters & journalists want to say.

blair003

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#1675816 23-Nov-2016 08:54

JonnyCam:

Fekitoa gone for 1 week (reduced from 2 for immediate apology)

The Irish times report it as:

"Disciplinary chiefs have admitted that Malakai Fekitoa should not have been on the field to score the winning try in New Zealand’s 21-9 victory over Ireland." which seems to be stretching the truth somewhat. There would have been another player in place I'm sure if not Fekitoa.

It's odd that the judiciary often say something has reached the read card threshold when the player was given a yellow or just a penalty on the field. A disconnect between the referees / AR & the judiciary perhaps. I guess they don't have to make a split second decision and have multiple replays. In this case, they could have used the TMO who may have advised red card, but the AR said yellow to Peyper.

I also find it funny that you get judos & time off the ban for god conduct at the disciplinary hearing. These guys aren't animals, they are professional players. I'm sure every one of them is quiet & apologetic at the hearing, while being coached by high priced lawyers.

That's modern journalism for you. Actually what they said is correct in terms of him not being on there to score it, but in any event the 21-9 score means that it wasn't a match-winning try, we would have won the match without those 7 points.

blair003

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#1675829 23-Nov-2016 09:13

Also, per http://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resources/World_Rugby_Handbook/EN/pubData/source/files/Regulation17_1.pdf

17.9.1 Citing Commissioners shall be entitled to cite a Player for any act(s) of Foul Play which in the opinion of the Citing Commissioner warranted the Player concerned being Ordered Off.

So to be cited it has to have been a red-card offence. So if a player is cited and it is upheld, it automatically means the opinion is he should have been red-carded during the game. But it is a bit strange because the citing commissioner is saying that he thinks Sam Cane's tackle was a red-card offence, whereas the panel disagreed.

Also, I have read articles where supposedly 12 incidents were reviewed, 11 related to NZ. But we know that of the 12 incidents, only two were actually referred, so those comments are somewhat disingenuous.

Are Ireland becoming to new England?

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#1675836 23-Nov-2016 09:21

With the number of penalties given to Ireland, it's unbelievable they didn't nearly out-score us just on 3 pointers. They have the kickers for it!

I guess, happily most teams aren't interested in winning by 3 pointers any more.

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JonnyCam

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#1675837 23-Nov-2016 09:23

blair003:

Also, I have read articles where supposedly 12 incidents were reviewed, 11 related to NZ. But we know that of the 12 incidents, only two were actually referred, so those comments are somewhat disingenuous.

I just read the same thing, I'd like to know what the others ones were. I can remember the Franks (maybe, or moody) neck roll / tackle.

Irish also complained about Dagg's shoulder into their players head, but that seemed purely accidental to me.

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#1675842 23-Nov-2016 09:29

blair003:

Are Ireland becoming to new England?

I meant the new England. As in, whining a lot.

And I ask this as someone who shares an affinity with Ireland, has an Irish passport and visited again for a few weeks last month and picked them to beat us in the first test (admittedly in a bar talking to some locals after a few Guinnesses).

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#1675859 23-Nov-2016 10:09

Dingbatt: As far as I know Crotty was ruled out for the remainder of the tour. Which is a shame, the form he was in.

No, I read two days ago, they are giving him fitness tests but expect him to be available.

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#1675860 23-Nov-2016 10:09

JonnyCam:

And Cane cleared of the charge. Good Job. Unfortunate for a player to be left prone on the ground like that, but it's just that - unfortunate. No matter what British / Irish supporters & journalists want to say.

Exactly. I thought MF should have been 2 weeks, it was pretty bad. No malice, but still.

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