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804 posts

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#2845793 9-Jan-2022 17:32

I hope Conway plays international cricket for at least 12 years or more. I think Misbah retired from international cricket around age 42 and Conway is only 30.

TeaLeaf

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#2845794 9-Jan-2022 17:37

Dochart: Imagine a top 7 of Latham, Young, Williamson, Conway, GP/Chapman, Mitchell and Cleaver. NZ should be able to dominate any team with this Top 7.

Both GP and Chapman can also bowl spin as well. No need to have another spinner when playing in NZ conditions. Can I have 4 seamers and 1 allrounder who can bowl seam and another allrounder who can bat at 5 and bowl spin as well.

The Problem is NZC do not have a good track history of thinking outside the square (old guard), having a batsman spinner and 5 seamers, 2 of which can bat. That would add sooooo many options and be able to have our pace bowlers do short sharp stints of maximum effort.

NZ has a strong 6-7 years ahead of them and who knows who will come through from NZ being at the top for so long now, hopefully it breads a lot of grass roots players wanting to bowl 150kph or extreme swing or be run hungry. We see it with guys like Rachin and Ben sears. I think we are at a point where we wont see many players getting chances like Kane very early on, more likely players joining like Young at 28-30yo etc, of course we have a group of players in this lot that will all retire around the same period, but thats a ways off. Cant wait to see what pops up between now and then.

Dochart: I hope Conway plays international cricket for at least 12 years or more. I think Misbah retired from international cricket around age 42 and Conway is only 30.

Same. It depends if his avg keeps the same, you see Ross retire at 38, but he hasnt been producing. Kholi avg has been going down for as long as Kanes has been going up.

If Kane and Conway keep averaging around 65 each year, and they way to keep going, there is no reason why not. Eyes tend to go so they may need laser surgery, other than that, both have the talent to keep going passed the usual 36-38yo.

Dochart

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#2845797 9-Jan-2022 17:45

TeaLeaf:
Dochart: Imagine a top 7 of Latham, Young, Williamson, Conway, GP/Chapman, Mitchell and Cleaver. NZ should be able to dominate any team with this Top 7.

Both GP and Chapman can also bowl spin as well. No need to have another spinner when playing in NZ conditions. Can I have 4 seamers and 1 allrounder who can bowl seam and another allrounder who can bat at 5 and bowl spin as well.

The Problem is NZC do not have a good track history of thinking outside the square (old guard), having a batsman spinner and 5 seamers, 2 of which can bat. That would add sooooo many options and be able to have our pace bowlers do short sharp stints of maximum effort.

NZ has a strong 6-7 years ahead of them and who knows who will come through from NZ being at the top for so long now, hopefully it breads a lot of grass roots players wanting to bowl 150kph or extreme swing or be run hungry. We see it with guys like Rachin and Ben sears. I think we are at a point where we wont see many players getting chances like Kane very early on, more likely players joining like Young at 28-30yo etc, of course we have a group of players in this lot that will all retire around the same period, but thats a ways off. Cant wait to see what pops up between now and then.

Sears and Duffy are the 2 I would like to see play more international cricket. I really enjoy watching those 2 bowl fast.

I wonder why they decided to go with Nicholls over Young. I’m not sure what Young average was when Nicholls debut for the test team.

In terms of batting we should be fine for the next 8-10 years. I’m more worried about bowling as I can feel like Southee and Boult may retire in the next 5-6 years time, maybe earlier if they get injured.

TeaLeaf

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#2845806 9-Jan-2022 18:04

Dochart:

Sears and Duffy are the 2 I would like to see play more international cricket. I really enjoy watching those 2 bowl fast.

I wonder why they decided to go with Nicholls over Young. I’m not sure what Young average was when Nicholls debut for the test team.

In terms of batting we should be fine for the next 8-10 years. I’m more worried about bowling as I can feel like Southee and Boult may retire in the next 5-6 years time, maybe earlier if they get injured.

Young came back and had to have shoulder surgery, to replace him thats how Blundell got in the team.

Young was blocked by Nicholls essentially, I guess they saw more prospect in Nicholls (avg around 38). I was not a fan and still am not, but he scores runs in NZ, but he is extremely streaky when your #5 needs to be one of those exreme confident type players, the problem is he is rarely part of a match winning formula, where somebody like GP at 5 will win you matches when the top order get out in clumps, along with a decent keeper and the 6th batsman, ie GP + Mithchell + Cleaver/Flecther + KJ will finish off an innings, rather than see the landslide we have seen in the last test match. That is what NZC need to sort out and fast, but they wont see it if Blundell doesnt bat.

Conway now in that elite group of players, 600+ in first 5 innings, only 4 other players including Bradman have done it. Legend in the making.

Im not worried about Boult/Southee. I think Boult will hang on longer. I see plenty of good swing bowlers and pace in our domestic, good enough to avg ~26-28. Im sure we will see more also in the next 5 years come through the u19 sides.

NZC do need to make sure while we are in this golden period we are growing Cricket in the youth. Which is where WI went wrong. With such a small player pool, in a golden age, that needs to grow.

tdgeek

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#2845809 9-Jan-2022 18:20

Dochart: It’s nice to see NZ openers performing consistently so far. Latham and Young are probably our best openers that NZ ever had.

I agree. But why didnt they do that in the first test?

tdgeek

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#2845810 9-Jan-2022 18:22

TeaLeaf:

IMO Nicholls will perform on this wicket as he has no pressure on him now.

Yep thats very feasible. But why do we use him if he can only perform in that way?

Dochart

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Ultimate Geek

#2845812 9-Jan-2022 18:25

tdgeek:
Dochart: It’s nice to see NZ openers performing consistently so far. Latham and Young are probably our best openers that NZ ever had.

I agree. But why didnt they do that in the first test?

Yea, it was unfortunate that they didn’t do well in the first test. Only Young got 50’s in both innings whereas Latham didn’t score much runs in that test.

Did they ever talk about what pitch around the world is similar to the Mount?

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tdgeek

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#2845815 9-Jan-2022 18:29

Dochart: Imagine a top 7 of Latham, Young, Williamson, Conway, GP/Chapman, Mitchell and Cleaver. NZ should be able to dominate any team with this Top 7.

IF they always perform at that level but the issue with NZ cricket is, we dont. We get a one or two wonderful double digit figures, surrounded by single digitt figures

The TAB has an interesting stance. NZ was raging favourites (I assume as we are far better than Bangers who had a one off great game) As this match has gone, NZ are still raging favourites, but that and a draw has not moved much at all. Thats tells me that with the weather, NZ can win, Bangers, cannot, but the draw has now tightened. Lets assume the last match, Bangers will still bat well, if they do, its a draw all day. Remember that we got a at best par score of 328, they blitzed it. Then we were bowled out cheap, then they won easily.Im a Kiwi but we all love the underdog, not how underdog are they, against the WTCchampions, at home??

It all comes down to was that game a one off or not?

TeaLeaf

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#2845818 9-Jan-2022 18:34

tdgeek:

Yep thats very feasible. But why do we use him if he can only perform in that way?

Like Macca said "no idea, Im not the selector" ;-)

I think NZ had Watling behind Nicholls so we could carry a weaker middle order. I dont think we have that privilege with Blundell there, which is largely why we saw such a massive middle order slump since India.

Mitchell should solidify it a bit. I think Williamson at 3 and Conway at 4 should see NZ not often needing our middle-tail, but if we do, it would be nice to have a WK who can finish off the innings and a 5 who can partner with the WK and 6. That 5, 6, 7 is so often the difference between an average score and a great score. I think Nicholls and Blundell have to be highlighted now after India and now the loss to Bangers.

Latham standing up, we needed somebody to do this beyond Conway. But Latham must have felt soooooooooo much of the loss on his shoulders as captain and failing opening after him and young being the only run scorers in Ind. And he hasnt won a test as captain yet. So could he take ovr from Kane was under question. Hes answered that emphatically.

NZ now need to put the foot down tomorrow morning and declare an hour after lunch around 550.

Conway breaking records.

Heck if NZ fixes the 5th and WK spots, they could dominate for another 6-7 years and perhaps be even better than before. I just want a 5 who has intent to score, same with the WK.

But intent, today, that was the difference. Intent to score. brilliant on a very tough green pitch. NZ will be aware of the possible rain and will want 1.5 days to bowl at Bangers. 120ov on this pitch with the humidity should be enough for NZs elite seam bowling pack to take 20 wickets.

tdgeek

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#2845820 9-Jan-2022 18:42

Humidity?? This is ChCh I live here :-) Its rare as hens teeth, ask my sprinkler!

They batted well obviously. Tom's average as Capt is 17 I heard so thats a win. It all depends if Bangers slashing of us was a statistical one off or not

TeaLeaf

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#2845821 9-Jan-2022 18:48

tdgeek:

It all comes down to was that game a one off or not?

I think it was more a one off from NZ. The conditions played a part, the grass burnt off after NZ bat. But even then it appeared NZ expected the bowlers to make that competitive. And they had more than enough chances to bowl bangers out for 250. Not challenging the plum LBW was the start of it. Had that been challenged, who knows what bangers would have scored or capitulated for. Wagner arguably over stepping on an LBW. 4 dropped catches. They just werent good enough, not up to their usual standard. I think Tom would have expected them to be better. Then the batting beyond the top order was essentially non existant. No partnerships.

And conversely Ebadot was a nuffie, suddenly taking a 6fa on a dying wicket against the world champions. That is definitely a one off.

I think for both teams it was a one off, NZ were a 3/10 and Bangers an 11/10 for the abilities of each team.

Latham clearly had a point to prove. I wish we had another couple of Conway types in the middle order, a GP at 5, possibly a Clever/Fletcher at 7 with Mitchell in between. That is going to be a very long avg40+ type side and will be competitive imo outside of NZ with all of those players having the intent to score and most having the ability to play spin. Clearly Ajaz would fit in for a boult or southee, possibly a rachin also for boult/Southee. You then have a very long batting line up away from home, 3 spinners, 3 seamers, perfect.

All just dreams of course, who knows what NZC will come up with between no and our next sub cont tour haha.

TeaLeaf

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#2845822 9-Jan-2022 18:55

tdgeek:

Humidity?? This is ChCh I live here :-) Its rare as hens teeth, ask my sprinkler!

They batted well obviously. Tom's average as Capt is 17 I heard so thats a win. It all depends if Bangers slashing of us was a statistical one off or not

I meant the cloud cover

I think regardless of how Bangers play, if NZ take the genuine wickets on offer (not edges that drop short etc, real chances), I think NZ bowling will dominate Bangers on this pitch in these conditions. I do not see anything but a NZ win from here outside the rain saving Bang. The game is too far advanced. Unless NZ are all out for 360, but even then, thats a good score on this pitch which averages 280 first innings. I dont see Bang making more than 250. So 500-550 should see the follow on and NZ bowling for 1.5 days/120 ov.

RE the draw, thats the rain, bookies aren going to lower the draw margin in test cricket even if its the bangers, when there is a chance of rain. I reckon it will end up being showers.

I wish we had rain in the north. Wont have rained for 3 months. :-(

tdgeek

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#2845823 9-Jan-2022 18:56

Ok its a one off. There were a number of "lucky" chances NZ had too but they are never mentioned. Will Youngs out that was never challenged. And many others. Take today when I watched for a bit, edges over the sips, edges between the skips. It happens. In any case, I see sport as sport I dont focus 110% on "my" team/player. In a 5 day, 450 over, 2700 ball match there are no excuses

We got smashed, at home, WTC champions. Hard to see that as an anomaly.

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#2845825 9-Jan-2022 18:58

TeaLeaf:

I meant the cloud cover

Im a keen gardener. Ok, I didnt check humidity today but its 6-57pm, cloud cover, humidity is 31%, ChCh is often bone dry

tdgeek

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#2845826 9-Jan-2022 19:01

TeaLeaf:

RE the draw, thats the rain, bookies aren going to lower the draw margin in test cricket even if its the bangers, when there is a chance of rain. I reckon it will end up being showers.

Rain, yes thats an obvious factor. Shortened game. Another factor is how Bangers batted last game, smashed us. if they bat less than that but pretty well, you will not see a won match if both teams bat well. Its a 3 test series, they are one up, a draw is a close to a win, in that they cannot lose, thats another factor.

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