America's Cup 2021 Defense

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Mad Scientist
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#2675233 16-Mar-2021 08:27

mudguard:

I think I've watched most of the races and I get frustrated, what has the closest race been? 100m? There's next to no passing and even the most recent one was a farce. It is like watching F1 these days. Great from a technical point of view in terms of getting from point a to b quickly, but dreary to watch. And falling off the foils, I can't even think of a motorsport analogy, losing all but first in your gearbox?

I think that's how it is when you use wind power! There is only going to be so much wind. Unless you can find pockets of turbocharged wind that the other team can't then it's going to be how your boat harness that wind, and it tends to be rather consistent and amplified when you have such big boats.

Falling off foils - maybe gravel trap?

Batman

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#2675234 16-Mar-2021 08:30

networkn:

I am a ETNZ fan through and though, but I can't help but feel for Italy today. That second race would have been absoloutely soul destroying.

When TNZ went into the water, I don't think there were many that thought they would win that race. I thought at the time only a mistake could save them, and even then....

I rewatched the bit where Italy fell off the foils. Unfortunately at that area there was absolutely no wind to get them back up. They sailed left and right to find wind to get them back up.

Being not a sailor, I wonder if they could have saved it instead of persisting with that they did.

When you watch the mic'd skippers, when the Rossa was on its way down (not completely off foils at that time - also you need know that when we hear the mic it's about 3 - 4 seconds delayed), Bruni said "ok let's just sail displacement around the mark then we get back up"

IMO what he should have said was, let's turn away from the mark to keep the boat on foil, then we sail around the mark. Hindsight is amazing though.

Batman

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#2675236 16-Mar-2021 08:36

Senecio: I keep hearing about the difference in foils. What’s stopping TNZ putting larger foils on in lighter winds?

Foil or jib?

The commentatary said the larger jib helps you get on foils faster, but the smaller jib produces less drag allowing to to foil faster.

tdgeek

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#2675252 16-Mar-2021 08:43

Batman:

Senecio: I keep hearing about the difference in foils. What’s stopping TNZ putting larger foils on in lighter winds?

Foil or jib?

The commentatary said the larger jib helps you get on foils faster, but the smaller jib produces less drag allowing to to foil faster.

He said foils. Its never been mentioned in YT commentary, so I can only assume its a no go, not worth talking about. Maybe its too hard or its locked in with the rules, and if the latter, you cant pick the weather 7 days ahead

hairy1

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#2675255 16-Mar-2021 08:47

They had to declare their equipment on the Wednesday before the cup started so no swapping foils from then on.

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

Fred99

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#2675256 16-Mar-2021 08:48

I suspect that if the cup is retained then getting challengers to commit to boats as costly as AC75 might be a problem.

Forecast has changed since last night when it looked like there wasn't going to be enough wind today. There could be racing, 7 knots at 4pm, building to 11 knots by 6PM.

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tdgeek

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#2675257 16-Mar-2021 08:49

Batman:

I rewatched the bit where Italy fell off the foils. Unfortunately at that area there was absolutely no wind to get them back up. They sailed left and right to find wind to get them back up.

Being not a sailor, I wonder if they could have saved it instead of persisting with that they did.

When you watch the mic'd skippers, when the Rossa was on its way down (not completely off foils at that time - also you need know that when we hear the mic it's about 3 - 4 seconds delayed), Bruni said "ok let's just sail displacement around the mark then we get back up"

IMO what he should have said was, let's turn away from the mark to keep the boat on foil, then we sail around the mark. Hindsight is amazing though.

They could have taken a wider angle when tacking, keep the speed up to offset the low wind but thats travelling further, they made a decision close to the margins and it didnt work out.

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#2675265 16-Mar-2021 08:53

Batman:

I've discovered a better alternative coverage - the Official AC coverage streams live on youtube. They explained that it's the hydraulics. They explained a lot of stuff on that stream that you don't get on the TVNZ coverage.

Warning - I get the feeling that the American commentators on the Official channel supports Luna Rossa. Their voices were so upbeat and happy when TNZ dropped off the foils and then completely dejected when Luna Rossa got overtaken.

TV One is shocking, YT which was advised here a while back has 4 expert commentators. As for upbeat and happy and dejected, thats widely exaggerated

What I see which is just as annoying though, is LR wins and all the talk is how good they are, or TNZ wins and its all how good they are. You wont hear any technical stuff on TV One, but you hear a lot of that on YT

EDIT 'Only one American commentator, Kenny Read. Nathan Outerridge is Aussie, Shirley is UK and the guy in the chopper is UK. All are swimming in Americas Cup or gold medals

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#2675267 16-Mar-2021 08:56

You can watch it here as well:

https://www.americascup.com/

wratterus

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#2675269 16-Mar-2021 09:02

IMO the YT commentary is far superior (although apparently we miss out on all the coming from behind and face sitting), not to mention no ads. I feel like it's pretty unbiased - probably a lot more so than the TVNZ commentary anyway.

I was imagining if that second race yesterday was the final race. It was stressful enough as it was!

ezbee

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#2675340 16-Mar-2021 10:41

MozzySails video on something new they saw yesterday.

Team New Zealand's Brand New Trick! The One Legged J-K!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUG93wgw7Qc

Using the virtual eye telemetry.

Would this be first cup where so much data is out there for everyone including each team ?
So teams have even better idea of what is happening with their opposition.

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#2675383 16-Mar-2021 11:33

Batman:

I've discovered a better alternative coverage - the Official AC coverage streams live on youtube. They explained that it's the hydraulics. They explained a lot of stuff on that stream that you don't get on the TVNZ coverage.

Warning - I get the feeling that the American commentators on the Official channel supports Luna Rossa. Their voices were so upbeat and happy when TNZ dropped off the foils and then completely dejected when Luna Rossa got overtaken.

Yep, Shirley is from Great Britain, Nathan is from Australia, and Ken is from America. They wont concede that ETNZ has a boat speed advantage, even though it is fairly obvious from the winning margins (all big wins or miniscule losses) & the fact that when NZ is behind they hang in there, gaining back some margin, or even overtake now. When LRPP is behind they get left on the horizon, yet they cant decide which boat may be faster. Hmm...

When LRPP is ahead it is all gushing commentary about how great a job they're doing. When ETNZ is ahead its all talk about... other topics "I wonder if the weather will give-out now" etc.

wratterus

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#2675385 16-Mar-2021 11:38

Dairyxox:

Yep, Shirley is from Great Britain, Nathan is from Australia, and Ken is from America. They wont concede that ETNZ has a boat speed advantage, even though it is fairly obvious from the winning margins (all big wins or miniscule losses) & the fact that when NZ is behind they hang in there, gaining back some margin, or even overtake now. When LRPP is behind they get left on the horizon, yet they cant decide which boat may be faster. Hmm...

When LRPP is ahead it is all gushing commentary about how great a job they're doing. When ETNZ is ahead its all talk about... other topics "I wonder if the weather will give-out now" etc.

I think that's exaggerated a little. Nathan has been saying he thinks ETNZ are faster since before the finals even started.

Dairyxox

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#2675399 16-Mar-2021 11:44

wratterus:

Dairyxox:

Yep, Shirley is from Great Britain, Nathan is from Australia, and Ken is from America. They wont concede that ETNZ has a boat speed advantage, even though it is fairly obvious from the winning margins (all big wins or miniscule losses) & the fact that when NZ is behind they hang in there, gaining back some margin, or even overtake now. When LRPP is behind they get left on the horizon, yet they cant decide which boat may be faster. Hmm...

When LRPP is ahead it is all gushing commentary about how great a job they're doing. When ETNZ is ahead its all talk about... other topics "I wonder if the weather will give-out now" etc.

I think that's exaggerated a little. Nathan has been saying he thinks ETNZ are faster since before the finals even started.

Yes you're right, but even Nathan O kinda flip-flops over the idea that NZ boat is faster. I have to concede that LRPP is better at pointing high into the wind which can give them a tactical advantage and some VMG wins. I get the feeling that they all hate the NZ media (especially the bozo who commentates with them - but bashing him is getting old now too - IMHO they should be nice & a bit more professional) and want to counter the local hype a bit.

EDIT: Can't blame them for hating the NZ media - they are often 'cringe-y'

networkn

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#2675407 16-Mar-2021 11:52

Team NZ clearly won race 1 yesterday, faster boat, great sailing. I think we can expect the same in same conditions. Race 2, TNZ possibly got a little lucky. I doubt you'd see that result twice in a lifetime. I think if I had been LR I would have sailed very conservatively to the finish line, but then I am really not a sailing buff and understand very little about it. I am really not sure in the reverse situation the opposite would have happened? Was the reason for LR not being able to get on their foils and recover boat, weather, or sailor errors? I guess it's somewhat hard to know.

LR did seem pretty confident that TNZ couldn't repeat what they did against them in race 1 yesterday, but with Jimmy who knows if it's bluster or a real thing. Either way, I don't think I'd take a single thing for granted. With almost any other sailor I'd feel more confident, but I just keep dreading him waiting till we are 50m from the finish line, on the last race and him stealing it away! :)

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