Novak Djokovic's entry to Australia rejected, tennis star to be flown out later today

Forums › Sports › Novak Djokovic's entry to Australia rejected, tennis star to be flown out later today

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#2851604 16-Jan-2022 19:23

freitasm:
Handle9:

That consistently posting ignorant and incorrect information isn’t ok.

So say it with words. Short sentences trying to be smart is not the way. It's a dick move.

I did say that a couple of posts before the one you are referring to. I’ve also said it earlier in the thread.

Kyanar pointed out the error in a post and the YouTube link was posted immediately after that post with no comment or effort to discuss or contribute to the discussion.

Handle9

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#2851605 16-Jan-2022 19:26

Kyanar:
Handle9: He’s not being deported on character grounds, he’s being deported on grounds of public health and good order.

According to submissions the minister found him to be of good character.

It's like you stopped reading at the end of the first paragraph. Perhaps you should read the post in it's entirety.

I did read the entire post which is why I only commented on the quotes section. The oral submissions on Friday made reference to the minister finding Djokovic to be of good character.

tdgeek

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#2851606 16-Jan-2022 19:28

Kyanar:

"Have you travelled to a third country in the last 14 days: [ ] Yes [ ] No"

"Hmm, I went to Spain. I should pick No, because if I say Yes I will have to quarantine"

That's not "filling in a form incorrectly", it's filing false information. You cannot just say "oh it was human error" when you're filling in a legal declaration on an objective fact you cannot have a reasonable basis not to know.

The Minister has already alluded to the fact that if this case is thrown out, he retains the right to re-cancel the visa on S133A grounds (that the Minister is satisfied that false information was supplied to the Department).

I was detained in LAX one year. Me and them, everyone else gone. Forgot the exact address where I was staying, guessed it. They called my gf who was driving from Goldonna LA to New Orleans. They got hold of her, she corrected it. Not an exact comparison, but are you evil or a dick? In my case, a dick, no issue. But if i was well known, and an antivax guy. I'd hardly be pushing the limits. Maybe he got told what works, maybe thats wrong, maybe he did try to act as tho everyone else will be fooled, how do you prove that? If this was Roger or Andy, is it the same? I like what he has done but I want him gone, bit it seems to be a trial of public opinion IMO

Kyanar

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#2851610 16-Jan-2022 19:32

tdgeek:

I was detained in LAX one year. Me and them, everyone else gone. Forgot the exact address where I was staying, guessed it. They called my gf who was driving from Goldonna LA to New Orleans. They got hold of her, she corrected it. Not an exact comparison, but are you evil or a dick? In my case, a dick, no issue. But if i was well known, and an antivax guy. I'd hardly be pushing the limits. Maybe he got told what works, maybe thats wrong, maybe he did try to act as tho everyone else will be fooled, how do you prove that? If this was Roger or Andy, is it the same? I like what he has done but I want him gone, bit it seems to be a trial of public opinion IMO

The address you're staying at is significantly different than whether or not you've crossed an international border in the last two weeks. I don't know about you, but I tend to remember the harrowing experience that is customs and immigration!

If you're just biased in favour of Djokovic, come out and say it. But claiming that there is the slightest comparison between remembering how many countries you've been to in the last two weeks and remembering the exact physical address of a hotel in Los Angeles when you don't have access to your booking confirmation is nonsensical.

networkn

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#2851611 16-Jan-2022 19:34

Kyanar:

If you're just biased in favour of Djokovic, come out and say it.

This works in both directions.

Bias is not automatically a bad thing.

tdgeek

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#2851612 16-Jan-2022 19:39

Kyanar:

The address you're staying at is significantly different than whether or not you've crossed an international border in the last two weeks. I don't know about you, but I tend to remember the harrowing experience that is customs and immigration!

If you're just biased in favour of Djokovic, come out and say it. But claiming that there is the slightest comparison between remembering how many countries you've been to in the last two weeks and remembering the exact physical address of a hotel in Los Angeles when you don't have access to your booking confirmation is nonsensical.

Ive already stated my opinion on Djokovic. But I will recap if your bias avoided it

1. He is an exceptional tennis player, he will be the best when he exceeds Roger and Rafa, and he was the permanent No.3 before that

2. I want to see him play this AUS Open

3. His detainment was unlawful

4. Having had his detainment reversed, i was surprised that he still avoided MIQ

5. His subsequent form issues, Spain issues tell me that he should be deported, 12 month ban

Is that sufficient? I don't have an anti ND bias, so cannot comment on that. Its about the law and the Covid rules

How would it be if it was Roger or Andy??

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Kyanar

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#2851613 16-Jan-2022 19:39

networkn:

This works in both directions.

Bias is not automatically a bad thing.

I admit, I don't like anti-vaxx sentiment. I also recognise that in the past, Novak has done some good, altruistic things (whether because he truly believes in the cause or for PR reasons is irrelevant) and that his anti-vaxx sentiment is not the entirety of his persona.

But in this case, I objectively believe he has done the wrong thing and should be removed. If he is not removed, he absolutely should not be able to get away with absolutely no penalties whatsoever, that's for sure, as I agree with the Minister's belief that it will empower anti-vaxxers to ignore public health directions if he is allowed to act with impunity.

Handle9

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#2851614 16-Jan-2022 19:43

It’s possible to have no sympathy for Djokovic or the Australian government. They are as bad as each other.

Djokovic is an anti vax dick head who should never have been granted a visa in the first place. The Australian government was entirely happy to let Victoria deal with it until they saw polling that showed how unpopular the decision was.

At that point they miraculously changed from saying it was a matter for Victoria to cancelling his visa. They were so incompetent they couldn’t even do that correctly. Once they screwed that up they have used a different power to get rid of him.

The whole thing is an exchange between dumb and dumber.

Kyanar

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#2851616 16-Jan-2022 19:45

tdgeek:

Ive already stated my opinion on Djokovic. But I will recap if your bias avoided it

1. He is an exceptional tennis player, he will be the best when he exceeds Roger and Rafa, and he was the permanent No.3 before that

2. I want to see him play this AUS Open

3. His detainment was unlawful

4. Having had his detainment reversed, i was surprised that he still avoided MIQ

5. His subsequent form issues, Spain issues tell me that he should be deported, 12 month ban

Is that sufficient? I don't have an anti ND bias, so cannot comment on that. Its about the law and the Covid rules

How would it be if it was Roger or Andy??

Doesn't really matter who it is, the rules should be applied consistently. The other players who made the same mistake left quietly.

Whether he is an excellent tennis player is utterly irrelevant, and it doesn't matter if you want to see him play the Open. At this time, Hotel Quarantine (or Howard Springs/Tennant Creek) are not options available to non-residents of Australia, so immigration detention and removal are the only options ABF had available. And last but not least his detention was not unlawful, it was found to have been procedurally deficient. Not the same thing.

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#2851618 16-Jan-2022 19:50

Why is it whenever I see a thread full of rudeness going back and forth like a game of tennis (pun intended), it's always the same usernames and avatars involved? Makes it easier to know who to avoid reading I guess.

Kyanar

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#2851620 16-Jan-2022 19:52

Handle9: It’s possible to have no sympathy for Djokovic or the Australian government. They are as bad as each other.

Djokovic is an anti vax dick head who should never have been granted a visa in the first place. The Australian government was entirely happy to let Victoria deal with it until they saw polling that showed how unpopular the decision was.

At that point they miraculously changed from saying it was a matter for Victoria to cancelling his visa. They were so incompetent they couldn’t even do that correctly. Once they screwed that up they have used a different power to get rid of him.

The whole thing is an exchange between dumb and dumber.

Granting of visas is entirely automated provided the information supplied is correct, and vaccination is not a visa condition, it's an entry condition. His vaccination status was not grounds to not issue a visa, however it is grounds to revoke it at the border if the information supplied in the second declaration under the Biosecurity Act is incorrect (intentional or not). If the correct information was supplied in his travel declaration, he would have been informed upfront he would not be permitted entry into Australia, and should not attempt to travel. If the incorrect information was supplied and he didn't feel he had to wedge into his announcement that he was headed to the Australian Open with exemption because heaven forfend you think he might be vaccinated, then it likely would have passed unnoticed and Border Force wouldn't have applied extra scrutiny to his declaration.

While generally I don't agree with much the government does (I mean, they are the Libs and Nats) in this case they 100% made the right call. How can they continue to expect the public to abide by public health orders if they let prominent individuals saunter in without question displaying clear anti-vaxx sentiments and a propensity for ignoring public health orders?

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Beccara

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#2851621 16-Jan-2022 19:54

And he's gone

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

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Handle9

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#2851622 16-Jan-2022 19:57

Kyanar:
Handle9: It’s possible to have no sympathy for Djokovic or the Australian government. They are as bad as each other.

Djokovic is an anti vax dick head who should never have been granted a visa in the first place. The Australian government was entirely happy to let Victoria deal with it until they saw polling that showed how unpopular the decision was.

At that point they miraculously changed from saying it was a matter for Victoria to cancelling his visa. They were so incompetent they couldn’t even do that correctly. Once they screwed that up they have used a different power to get rid of him.

The whole thing is an exchange between dumb and dumber.

Granting of visas is entirely automated provided the information supplied is correct, and vaccination is not a visa condition, it's an entry condition. His vaccination status was not grounds to not issue a visa, however it is grounds to revoke it at the border if the information supplied in the second declaration under the Biosecurity Act is incorrect (intentional or not). If the correct information was supplied in his travel declaration, he would have been informed upfront he would not be permitted entry into Australia, and should not attempt to travel. If the incorrect information was supplied and he didn't feel he had to wedge into his announcement that he was headed to the Australian Open with exemption because heaven forfend you think he might be vaccinated, then it likely would have passed unnoticed and Border Force wouldn't have applied extra scrutiny to his declaration.

While generally I don't agree with much the government does (I mean, they are the Libs and Nats) in this case they 100% made the right call. How can they continue to expect the public to abide by public health orders if they let prominent individuals saunter in without question displaying clear anti-vaxx sentiments and a propensity for ignoring public health orders?

They were fine with other tennis players entering under the same conditions.

Multiple branches of government were fine with them entering, including the prime minister. Something made them change their minds, I don’t think it was what was ethical.