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804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3205131 10-Mar-2024 20:12

I’m happy with the new pace bowlers that are coming through the system. They have genuine height and pace which was lacking in the past till Jamieson came through.

Matt Fisher will be interesting to watch once he becomes a Blackcap. His first class and list A stats averaging around 24 ball is great.

Blundell has to go. Fletcher or Cleaver should have been given a go at this rate. I’m still not totally convinced Conway should open the batting for tests when he comes back. Young with the amount of chances he has is not cut out as an opener but if he was playing in India etc I think he would have been fine as opener but in NZ, Aus, Eng, SA conditions with the ball moving a lot he is more suited at No 4 or lower. They could have easily moved Rachin to open and move Young to No 4 and may have stopped the batting collapses from happening where we could have scored more runs. Rachin has had experience opening the batting for his home domestic team with success. I see why they couldn’t have tried this option while Conway was out of the side with an injury.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3205322 11-Mar-2024 13:36

Dropping Marsh on 28 probably will cost us the win. Aus still have 5 wickets in hand with 100 more runs to go is probably doable at this rate. Aussies have been the better team for this test series.

This test is reminding me of the Adelaide Test against Aus in 2015.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3205341 11-Mar-2024 14:02

Dochart: Dropping Marsh on 28 probably will cost us the win. Aus still have 5 wickets in hand with 100 more runs to go is probably doable at this rate. Aussies have been the better team for this test series.

This test is reminding me of the Adelaide Test against Aus in 2015.

Rachin needs to learn to catch a cricket ball, surely that should be mandatory to play Test cricket. Hes shelled 3 this series and the one first ball this morning would have opened up the real Tail and removed the dangerous Marsh.

If aus were chasing 200-6 down, very very different game and likely all over by lunch.

NZ lost the first series by the amount of runs they dropped in catches (Rachin 2, 5 total).

They could lose this test by much the same manner, dropped it.

Now GP doesnt have enough runs to protect him giving it a real go.

NZ did what they could with the pace bowlers, but asking Kugs to learn Wags body line was idiotic and leaked runs fast.

BJ "ya gotta take ya catchers, and that was an easy one" (Rachin dropping the first ball of the day)

Rachin needs to go into a 6 week off season camp with the best fielding coach available in the world we can find, because he looks clumbsy, just running for them, limbs all over the place. He certaintly doesnt every look like hes going to catch one. GP has done his best to win both tests with 3 superman catches, Im not asking Rachin to be GP, but put some work ethic into your fieldng but most importantly your catcing Rachin, its not good enough at HS level let alone province let alone Tests.

PolicyGuy

1726 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#3205450 11-Mar-2024 16:34

NZ Bowling statistics:

Rachin Ravindra wasn't bowled at all.
Why not - he was picked as an all-rounder, wasn't he?

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3205451 11-Mar-2024 16:35

Another intense finish. They did the same thing in the 2019 ODI World Cup final and did the same thing again today. Deja vu all over again. Blackcaps the only team who can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Will have to wait even longer for a test win against Aus at home. It’s been more than 30 years.

Blackcaps need to stop gifting runs after getting early wickets. We got Aus at 39-4 to all of a sudden they win with a loss of 7 wickets only.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3205454 11-Mar-2024 16:47

PolicyGuy:
NZ Bowling statistics:

Rachin Ravindra wasn't bowled at all.
Why not - he was picked as an all-rounder, wasn't he?

I mean when the partnership was building between Marsh and Carey they should have at least tried all the bowlers especially Ravindra and Mitchell. Aus played better this series and Blackcaps have a lot of questions that need to be answered.

I think key questions is do we move GP up to No 6 to give him more chances to score runs with the top/middle order, drop Blundell in favour of Cleaver/Fletcher, Rachin moves to opening/Conway to No 4 for the next series and dropping Southee.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3205502 11-Mar-2024 21:31

Good first test for Sears. excellent strike rate, a wicket every 5th over is superb.

I feel despite dropping the series, our young guys would have learnt a lot.

Southee should not be included in future squads just to be THE captain. I feel like his time is up.

What we need to working toward is our tour of aussie next year, including The Boxing Dy Test

The captaincy was very below pr. I believe Mitchell looks capable, or is he too much of a "Lad"?

I just hope NZC do not forget with Rachin his fielding is costing NZ test matches, not soley, but regulation catch out first ball this morning and then head, aus would have been 70-6, a position even Tim wouldnt have stuffed up.

Blackcaps v Australia: Early dropped catch proves costly as Australia hold on for test victory over New Zealand in Christchurch | Newshub

IMO NZC should have players passing some basic testing, in this case cacthes. The 5 (two from Rachin) was the runs difference in the first test and this clearly cost the match this time. If you cannot catch a cricket ball, you shouldnt be representing our team. I know I sound harsh and everybody thinks hes the golden child, but I want him to succeed, to do so you have to be reliable taking simple enoug catches. Scoring 240 at FC level shouldnt be taken too seriously. He needs a coach expert in teaching with the regulation high balls.

What they need is to firm that middle-tail and really all it takes is mirroring the aussies, getting a wicket keeper who can attack. Hard to think Marsh was replaced by replaced by Green, then Marsh forced his way back in by Sheffield Shield (FC), instead of dumping Green they moved him up to 4 and mostly just concentrates on batting now. But what they have done is use 3 very aggressive players rom 4-7, the key difference being Carey as WK.

None of there 5-8 avg much above 30. What they do have is a SR of about 4rpo. That will ensure most games are well advanced. Leaving enough time to get 20 wickets. Where we do avg ~35-52 5-8.

But aus would be using Mitchell's swing in the bowling as the 4th seamer with strong ODI type players to 8.

This is the team approximately I would be building for next years boxing day test series victory. That is 3 spinners and 4 seamers, 3 seamers currently capable of avg below 20 plus GP at avg 14. The most important thing is it bats to 8, if you include KJ and Henry it capale with bat to 10

Blundells time is up, I dont have the answer for opening if Conway continues this huge slide, other than Ravindra use to be one. abbas is not ready tomorrow but he is a very high quality batsman, I wonder what our chances of getting him into a County FC side to be ready for a Test Debut?

Something like

Latham - 40
Conway - 42
Williamson - 55
M Abbas - FC 45 (we picked Rachin into Test squad and he did not perform this strongly so early on)
Ravindra - 39
Mitchell - 52
G Phillips - 33
Cleaver - FC 38, experienced campaigner, good SR
KJ - 20 - Has the skills of a 30 something batsman
Henry - 22, clean striker could easily be 25+
Sears/Orourke (depending on KJ fitness)

Wicket keepers to keep eye on for me Max Chu & very early on Curt Heaphy plus late bloomer Gareth Severin FC 48

Gareth Severin Profile - Cricket Player New Zealand | Stats, Records, Video (espncricinfo.com)

Curtis Heaphy Profile - Cricket Player New Zealand | Stats, Records, Video (espncricinfo.com)

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thermonuclear

601 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3205719 12-Mar-2024 16:14

TeaLeaf:

Southee should not be included in future squads just to be THE captain. I feel like his time is up.

What we need to working toward is our tour of aussie next year, including The Boxing Dy Test

The NZ tour of Australia isn't until Dec 2026 - Jan 2027. Already planning my trip to Melbourne and Sydney for this.

Back home again from the Mainland, had another great time watching cricket at Hagley despite the result. I've read what you guys have had to say about the match and where NZ is headed as a test side. My major concern out of this home test summer revolves around the coaching and selection of the side currently, I think it's disappointing that Stead re-upped his contract for another spell in charge.

A number of dumb selection decisions in recent times, the latest of which being picking Kuggeleijn out of nowhere to leap-frog over the accomplished Wagner leaves me wondering after decades of following this team. How is a former one-day wicketkeeper-batter the best option as NZ batting coach when we have seen the averages of the top six struggle for a while now (Williamson notwithstanding)? Is there really no-one better available to work on the technical deficiencies of our batting? How is Santner again favoured over Ajaz Patel in the test squad?

Then there's Southee as captain, or even in the side. I'm the first to admit that he has been one of NZ's very best pacemen fullstop and has bowled us to victory any number of times, but the decision to make him the test captain in the twilight of his career when the guy deputising for Williamson up until that point was Latham beggers belief. Not to mention Latham had a better winning record as captain than Williamson, without the benefit of Williamson's batting to drive NZ to test wins, means that it should have been a no-brainer to appoint Latham to the role when Kane stepped aside.

He's had a great career, but Southee is past his use-by now. He's too slow and predictable, he continues to take the best of the bowling conditions despite almost everyone we've seen in the pace attack this summer looking consistantly more threatening than him. Then there's his captaincy, the abysmal record with DRS, allowing Mitchell to continue at first slip when he isn't up to the task compared to what we had previously in Ross Taylor. The placing of Ravindra at point to drop the catch which turned the test Australia's way.

Was also pretty disappointed with Mitchell's post-match interview, I'm probably a grumpy old b***ard, but I entirely agree with Jeremy Coney and Ian Smith's assessment of what he had to say. Process is important but, at elite sport level, results pay the bills and are the most important factor. There's a little too much of this self-assessment around the side at the moment, too much faith in individuals rather than taking the difficult decisions to benefit long-term gains for the team.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3206367 14-Mar-2024 15:49

thermonuclear:

The NZ tour of Australia isn't until Dec 2026 - Jan 2027. Already planning my trip to Melbourne and Sydney for this.

My bad, have had a migraine since watching NZ drop two tests, literally. The little things they use to pride themselves on, cost us both matches and fair play to aus they took advantage.

But seeing Rachin get the Hadlee medal was a shock. So the guy scored 240 vs FC bowlers who avg 38, cmon. What should matter is more than a big score vs what, just ignore his ability to cost the team matches in the field..... I keep getting my hopes up with him, then he plays a loose shot to an obvious plan. Which I could live with if he just took catches that would have literally won matches.

To be fair the first Test innings was taking the piss with 6 shelled and most of them easy reg catches, Rachin, Kugs, Southee, Henry, Nicholls (Sub) what is going on, 3 of those players would normally catch those with their teeth. Instead, we lost 0-2. To be fair aside from the aussie first innings on the basin (when most of the droppsies occurred), both teams struggled with the bat at times. Pretty even. Which I think was testament to our bowling and GP (aka Superman) taking 3 insane catches at gully to remove what were ironcially critical wickets.

What aus have is a solid top 3, which we are struggling with the second opener, then they have white ball bashers to #7/ Then they have 3 high quality pace bowlers and one spine bowler alike to GP but clearly more experienced. We actually have a better team imo, all be it some injured and some still young and struggling.

What they do is score rapidly 4-7 which advances the game giving plenty of time for results. I think we have a similar setup but better batsmen 4-9 (KJ 19, Henry 23 are clean strikers and more than tail enders).

If we can get KJs back sorted and have him give up the 145kph effort ball and bowl mid 130s, his swing and bounce is still lethal. Lets hope he recovers properly this time.

But we saw so much promise in Orourke and Sears who are pretty rapid too, Sears can get some movement through the air with mid 140s, Henry should be known for the tail of his career, with an avg of 19 the last 4 years home and away. Then there is GP, simply the best all round cricketer in the team and I was so happy to see him get the "NZ Players Association Cap" or in other words "the players player award". He deserved it, a real team player, he gave it everything in attempt to try to get the team wins.

So if we consider Orourke, Sears, GP, Rachin are our future, I see a lot of greatness ahead with KJ sort of between them and the old boys. I can see Latham, Williamson, Mitchell playing until late 30s to make sure they leave the team in good hands.

Keep an eye on M Abbas in FC, current avg 48. But hes young like Rachin was, but I can see him in our future middle order.

Mitchell bowling a bit would do away with the need for a 4th seamer, with him and the two spinners holding and end while the seamers take short sharp spells at high intensity. Of course if KJ returns, lets hope he makes it to NZs fastest bowler to 100 test wickets, he has the 50 easily, so hes on track for the 100.

Lets say Lockie can buy you 5 wickets but can only bowl 15 overs in a Test, surely its worth a crack. Those white balls do nothing and he still cleans teams up. I know nobody has faith in this idea, but we need to succeed wit real weapons, mid 20s at the highest, or fast SR.

Very much a succession period, but I think we have the players to remain in the top 4.

But the big question remains, if Conway cant find the runs on return, who will play#2?

thermonuclear

601 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3206398 14-Mar-2024 17:52

TeaLeaf:

If we can get KJs back sorted and have him give up the 145kph effort ball and bowl mid 130s, his swing and bounce is still lethal. Lets hope he recovers properly this time.

So if we consider Orourke, Sears, GP, Rachin are our future, I see a lot of greatness ahead with KJ sort of between them and the old boys. I can see Latham, Williamson, Mitchell playing until late 30s to make sure they leave the team in good hands.

Keep an eye on M Abbas in FC, current avg 48. But hes young like Rachin was, but I can see him in our future middle order.

Lets say Lockie can buy you 5 wickets but can only bowl 15 overs in a Test, surely its worth a crack. Those white balls do nothing and he still cleans teams up. I know nobody has faith in this idea, but we need to succeed wit real weapons, mid 20s at the highest, or fast SR.

Very much a succession period, but I think we have the players to remain in the top 4.

But the big question remains, if Conway cant find the runs on return, who will play#2?

I'm sure I'll be considered the prophet of doom but I'm not confident we'll see Jamieson back at the top level consistently again. I fear he's going to become another Bond, a huge talent that has his career cut criminally short by injury. Remains to be seen I guess.

Ferguson is an interesting one. He played that first test on the ill-fated 2019 tour of Australia, being struck down by injury in the oppressive heat of Perth. It was Jamieson who was called into the tour as the replacement when he went down. I'd certainly give him another go, he would have been preferable to Kuggeleijn, Tickner and Duffy they've selected in recent times. They could use him in the same fashion as England use Mark Wood, as you've mentioned.

Not sure about Abbas at this point, first class figures look good but they can flatter to deceive as Kuggeleijn has demonstrated. I think Foxcroft has to be in the frame too if they're looking for replacements. Which they're probably not due to the current management and leadership being very conservative and insular.

The up-coming test schedule is a selection moment-of-reckoning for the test side. Six matches against Afganistan, Sri Lanka and India on the sub continent where the bowling attacks should favour spin. I don't see how Southee survives given you have the world-class Henry as the logical first seam pick, then have O'Rourke, Sears and possibly Jamieson lining up to take the second paceman role. Again, it's been a dumb selection to give the captain's armband to Southee over Latham.

With regard to Conway, Young, and Blundell, you'd want weight of runs in domestic cricket first to allow their re-selection to the side. However, that's not going to happen prior to these fixtures, so all three will probably continue on until the home test season at the end of the year. The "problem" with Conway in particular is that he wasn't dropped but subbed out due to injury.

Not sure if that will aid his mind-reset the same way being dropped due to poor performance would have. He's an undoubted talent, no one questions that, but there has to be proper reset for him which I believe can only be achieved by going back to domestic first class and bullying a few attacks at that level to rediscover his mojo. It doesn't appear he was getting anything out of the "coaching" of Ronchi at test level.

Young has again been a victim of circumstance, I think he's good enough to properly succeed at test level. Just again wonder what is happening inside the Black Caps with coaching and mentoring to allow him to perform. My faith in Blundell is starting to revert to its initial setting of skepticism when he first came into the side. Seeing him score that ton against Aussie in Aussie at the MCG in front of 90k fans made me a believer, and again in England on that tour when he and Mitchell were the only batters to stand up.

But, I'd prefer him to again reapply to keep his position by scoring some runs at domestic level and being better than the other options in doing that however not going to happen due to the schedule, so I think he will be retained for now. They could try him back at opener perhaps, he had early success there including the MCG ton I mentioned.

Really looking forward to the biography from Wagner this Christmas. I don't think we've heard the last of what went on in that second test vs SA with Southee, and the subsequent retirement. Also hoping someone picks him up for commentary work next summer, would be interested to hear what he has to say about his former team.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3206414 14-Mar-2024 19:19

Just thinking about the test series against Australia that was our best time to win a test series/draw a series against them. I understand we got the toss wrong for the 1st test at the Basin and I don’t blame them cause usually at the Basin you bowl first and have 4 seamers.

Any idea why the pitch at the Basin was not behaving as usual. Anything to do with the hotter weather in NZ and particularly Wellington that may have caused the pitch to be more spin friendly than pace friendly?

The second test we should have won it when they were at 39-4. If they didn’t drop Marsh at 28 we probably would have won it but Aus have a habit of winning when it doesn’t look possible.

We saw with Young seems to perform better at No 4 and 5 but unfortunately they don’t want Rachin opening the batting when he has done it for his home domestic side. With Conway injured I see why they couldn’t at least given it a go. If Blundell does end up losing the wicketkeeper position I would like him to go back to opening as that was his best position.

Wicketkeeper should be batting at No 7 and not 6. This would have been perfect to promote GP to 6.

KJ may end up becoming like Bond but I remember Cummins debut in 2011 in the test side but he was quite injury prone early on his career until 2016 when he became part of the side fully and hasn’t been injured as much. I wonder what Cummins does to keep fit and stay injury free.

Thinking about Ferguson, as much as I want him part of the test side I think we need him more for the limited overs cricket. Even if he just bowls 10 overs per day I feel like it will be too much in a short amount of time. I think we have it covered now with Jamieson, O’Rourke and Sears playing test cricket and not risking Ferguson.

Next test series we may not see Southee in the test side. Captaincy might be given to D Mitchell or GP. I reckon. I’m not sure if Henry will play as well. We may need bowlers like Jamieson and O’Rourke who might be able to get wickets on spin pitches. With their height, pace and bounce.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3206416 14-Mar-2024 19:29

With the awards ceremony the other day I was surprised to see Williamson win test cricketer of the year. That award should have gone to Henry. Dude got 17 wickets against Aus in the test series at an average of 15.70 and scored 101 runs against them. I’m not sure how the voting works but a lot of voting weight should have gone with that Aus test series. He was the only won who actually made the test series more competitive. If the batters stood up we could have won a test series against them

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3207770 18-Mar-2024 21:47

Dochart: against Aus in the test series at an average of 15.70 and scored 101 runs against them.

Yep I agree.

you could as easily state GP's acitions with ball, catching/fielding and bat gave NZ a chance. But at least he got recognised.

I guess its because Kane got back to #1 again with some average prior to the aus series near 70 for the year.

But yeah, Henry has been our form bowler for four years, because he is consistent in that channel. nearly all great pace bowlers have been channel bowlers, outside the Pak great swing bowlers.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3213298 2-Apr-2024 18:17

They had to dig it up again, just as the PTSD was calming down. For me the most unsporting part of it was the England Manager not allowing for the cup to either be engraved Draw, or to reverse the result and give the cup to NZ. The first option would not have been asking for a lot, to let them retain the cup but for it to reflect the below information. NZ surely if a strong team next time in a final will win one, given how many white ball finals we have appeared in during Kanes era of NZ cricket (not his performances specifically but its approximately our most golden era of cricket)

Cricket: Retiring umpire Marais Erasmus admits 'massive error' may have cost Blackcaps 2019 World Cup victory | Newshub

thermonuclear

601 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3213358 2-Apr-2024 22:52

TeaLeaf:

They had to dig it up again, just as the PTSD was calming down.

The worst part of that result was not that we lost, or even how we lost (with the worst tie-breaker rule ever conceived in the history of all sport). The worst part of it was the way the English media crowed for four years like they had actually marched to victory in that final by 250 runs!

To see them fail miserably in the recent ODI Cup, getting tossed out early doors was a decent flock of chooks coming home to roost in the karma department for them.

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