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6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3214714 5-Apr-2024 16:30

thermonuclear:

To see them fail miserably in the recent ODI Cup, getting tossed out early doors was a decent flock of chooks coming home to roost in the karma department for them.

Watching Bazball reminds me of Mccullum premeditating the first ball going for 6, only to get a yorker underneath is batting arc in the 15 world cup. Utterly stupid. It has its place but not premeditating somebody like Starc in his prime, known for swinging yorkers. IMO that lost us that world cup, one I believe we should have really won. Like the game we beat them in during the rounds in NZ, low scoring match, just needed a sensible start.

then the next world cup we clearly won but the umpires couldn't count, even with the mistake it was absurd not to have a second super over, that cup should have NZ's name on it in some way shape or form. The ICC should offer NZ a second version of the Cup to make up for the mistake.

I think the next will be Kanes last, hopefully we have built a strong team.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3221394 22-Apr-2024 12:55

This a bizarre cricket team NZ have selected (given what we could have taken on tour), thank goodness for Mark Chapman 87no from 42.

I use to think Foxcroft was full of promise, just not delivering on that T20 ability . But still, given hes a right arm off break with handy averages who can bat, especially his red ball stats, Id like to see him play a test but no idea who he could replace. With 24.9 FC is pretty much eye candy bowling spin in NZ with 33 bat avg hes the kind of bowler you want sub Cont with GP ripping it through the air at the other end. I dunno, maybe drop Rachin, move Mitchell to 4, GP up to 5, Foxy in at 6 ahead of Blunders.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3223278 27-Apr-2024 10:21

Incredible opening stand from Blundel and the rookie Tim Robinson, who really I didnt rate much and his stats in the 3 formats so far back that up, but selected a 4th time none the less and puts on a 50 at about a run a ball, Blundell a rapid 30 odd.

For me though it was O'rourke and Ben Sears bowling that got NZ home with Pak falling just 4 short of the NZ 178 score, backing up their selections in all 3 international formats. Very happy to have both in our bowling stocks come what may with KJ and the older bowlers.

Definitely makes our chances in the next WC look better.

When you have Nesham at 5 and M Bracewell at 6 it gives an idea of how very depleted this T20 squad is, yet have gone into an unbeatable 2-1 lead with one to play in the Pak series.

PAK vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 4th T20I at Lahore, April 25, 2024 (espncricinfo.com)

thermonuclear

605 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3224195 29-Apr-2024 14:22

Apparently the T20 World Cup Squad is being named today. Seems a bit early but I guess they need to get the shirts printed. I believe it's a 15-man squad that gets taken into the tournament, so here's my names that should get the call...

Allen
Seifert
Robinson/Munro
Ravindra
Mitchell
Phillips
Chapman
Clarkson
Santner
Bracewell
Boult
Henry
O'Rourke
Sears
Milne/Ferguson

I've probably gone a bit pace-heavy given the expected conditions, but I don't think you can ignore wicket-taking ability. I just don't think most spinning options available to NZ are going to trouble top quality batsmen.

As you can see, I have no place in my squad for Williamson, Conway, Neesham, Southee and Sodhi. The T20 game continues to evolve and those players are either out of form or not explosive enough in the case of Kane. He would be my first pick in any test squad but is just too "traditional" for modern T20.

All that said, I don't expect NZ to trouble Australia, India and South Africa for the top spots in the comp. It will take a noteworthy run of form from several NZ players for them to make it to the final four. I just don't see it at the moment unfortunately.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3224199 29-Apr-2024 14:41

Our T20 squad at the moment is really good. With Bracewell and Phillips being able to bowl decent spin and bat I can understand if they decide to drop Sodhi in the playing 11 and to an extent Neesham as well.

They have just announce the squad for T20 World Cup. This is what the playing XI should be:
1. Allen
2. Conway (wk)
3. Williamson
4. Phillips
5. Mitchell
6. Neesham/Chapman
7. Bracewell
8.Santner
9.Southee/Henry
10. Ferguson/Milne
11. Boult

The other members that were selected as well Ravindra and Sodhi.

Unfortunate that Seifert was not selected. Conway form was an issue and having Seifert in the squad would have 2 wicketkeepers in the team that could of been selected. Phillips no longer keeps wicket and Allen has only done it sometimes.

NZ selectors are doing Munro dirty. Should have been in the T20 World Cup squad in 2022 and this year as well. His experience of playing in Aus and West Indies would have given the team a big boost in winning these ICC World Cup trophies.

No Sears as well. I would have selected Sears ahead of Henry but definitely should have dropped Southee for Sears.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3224917 1-May-2024 10:27

Dochart: Our T20 squad at the moment is really good. With Bracewell and Phillips being able to bowl decent spin and bat I can understand if they decide to drop Sodhi in the playing 11 and to an extent Neesham as well.

1. Allen
2. Conway (wk)
3. Williamson
4. Phillips
5. Mitchell
6. Neesham/Chapman
7. Bracewell
8.Santner
9.Southee/Henry
10. Ferguson/Milne
11. Boult

Unfortunate that Seifert was not selected. Conway form was an issue and having Seifert in the squad would have 2 wicketkeepers in the team that could of been selected. Phillips no longer keeps wicket and Allen has only done it sometimes.

I had to think about this for a couple of days as some of the squad was a surprise to me. But it is a very strong squad on paper.

I agree about Seifert, but also as an opener with Conway's form. If Conway can come back after all this time out and show some kind of Reset, I think we have a very solid side.

But I think there will be some players disappointed not to make the squad. Sears is in the squad as travelling reserve. I think Sears should be in the squad and Henry as the reserve, I find his selection a bit odd.

Sears has cracking stats early in his career, so far in T20i his bowling he is averaging 22 at 8rpo but most importantly a wicket every 16 balls (SR). Henry isnt miles behind but far enough for me to want to swap them around. O'rourke while slightly better than Henry, hes only played 3 matches.

Its a solid squad but I think it a bit light on batters, plenty of all rounders. With T20 strategy being mostly about batting and with the bowling its more about pace off, or ability to vary pace. So I agree Bracewell joining Phillips and Rachin is the kind of player you want.

Ive gone with something similar but Ive dropped Boult simply as his stats dont match up to the other Bowling specialists. Id put Ben Sears in if I could. Ive gone with the Batsman/Spin players that we have a few good ones. Lockie is irreplaceable and simply our best bowler by a long way and experienced avg: 18 econ: 7.5 SR (balls per wicket) 15. Those are staggering stats. Ive gone with Chapman for his experience along with the higher avg than Neesham. It was a toug choice but we have enoug bowlers and big hitters. Im tempted to put Phillips in at 3 and Williamson at 4 for a couple of reasons, firstly should an opener get out early we can keep the pinch hitting while the field is up during the power play, secondly Williamson has often stalled our run rate during the power play. I almost want to put him down at 5 or 6, because he can score runs when the field is spread out. His avg of 34 is good but the SR of 120, thats about 7.2 runs per over, in fact I just changed my mind haha. He can anchor a failed innings.

1. Allen
2. Conway (wk)
3. Mitchell
4. Phillips
5. Williamson
6. Ravindra
7. Chapman
8. Bracewell
9. Santner
10. Ferguson
11. Southee (Sears)

Kane Williamson (C), Finn Allen, Trent Boult, Michael Bracewell, Mark Chapman, Devon Conway, Lockie Ferguson, Matt Henry, Daryl Mitchell, Jimmy Neesham, Glenn Phillips, Rachin Ravindra, Mitchell Santner, Ish Sodhi, Tim Southee. Travelling Reserve: Ben Sears

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3246083 8-Jun-2024 13:40

Geeze that was lucky for NZ, but this afg swing bowler is a gooden. Swings both ways, reminds me of the classic Pak swing bowlers.

Oh no now Conway just lobs one to the mid off and GONE. NZ two down early chasing 160.

Need Williamson and Mitchell to lay a platform now, even if just 6-7rpo for the next 8-10ov.

edit: now williamson gets lucky missing one looking out, umpires call NO. Looked out live.

USa is going like a top 4 team in their pool, crazy, but good for the game.

Flap sake, Mitchell gone.

NZ looking like gonna drop their first match, which means they will have to beat WI and have a better differential if WI beats afg.

This chap is the big ticket in bowling for me, wow hes got big swing both ways and bowled some Jaffas. Currently top wicket taker in Comp. Both spin and seam now. afg are looking to be contenders

This is insane Williamson out to Rashid first ball.

Partly NZ terribly under prepared for this comp but hats off to AFG, they look the real deal to me with 3 amazing bowlers. Fahrood with 8 wickets in two matches with another over still to go. Big fan.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3246191 8-Jun-2024 14:25

This is near all over, Phillips the only one with a start and now OUT.

Whoever faces AFG under lights in this comp is going to do bloody well to win. Such a good bowling attack. They smoked about 100 off our final 10ov of bowling too.

USA & AFG world cup final, wouldn't that be something :-). USA unlikely to beat Ind in their Pool so Pak not out yet, but they WILL need to beat Ind and have the better differential. No disrespect to the "minnows" in the groups.

T20 World Cup Points Table | T20 World Cup Standings | T20 World Cup Ranking | ESPNcricinfo

Dingbatt

6756 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3246194 8-Jun-2024 14:45

Wow, that was embarrassing!

NZ seemed to have the air that all they had to do was turn up.

But best not to take anything away from the performance of Afghanistan, they were as excellent as NZ were awful.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3246197 8-Jun-2024 14:55

Dingbatt:

Wow, that was embarrassing!

NZ seemed to have the air that all they had to do was turn up.

But best not to take anything away from the performance of Afghanistan, they were as excellent as NZ were awful.

They pretty much did just turn up, one jog on the pitch yesterday and minimal game time of recent, nuts. Thats how to improve Conways confidence lol.

But too right, they were brilliant, some of those swing deliveries would take most batsmen, definitely a high quality performance.

NZ wont be popular in WI needing to beat them to have a chance, although if afg play like this vs WI I think same result. We have had our golden era, not saying its all over, but I think its great for the game to see afg now have the confidence to put the foot down (should have beaten aus not long back) and for the US to be top of their table with a high chance of going through.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3246198 8-Jun-2024 15:02

I would have added Ravindra in the side. He played most matches in the IPL but Allen, Conway, Williamson and Phillips have had no recent game time but lets add these players in the side over Ravindra.

If we don’t make it to the Super 8 we don’t deserve it. Refusing to play the warm up matches was a big mistake then selecting players with no recent game time is the worse.

Need to change the coaches after this T20 World Cup for sure particularly the batting coach. I know that won’t happen but we need to look for coaches outside NZ particularly Australian coaches if we want to start winning World Cups. Imagine if we hired someone like Langer or Ponting as the NZ coach.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3246200 8-Jun-2024 15:07

Golden era is definitely over. Should have won ODI World Cup in 2019 and T20 World Cup 2021 finals. These two ICC events were our best chance at getting the silverware.

It’s going to be interesting if NZ don’t make the Super 8 and if they will keep the coaches after this tournament.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3246206 8-Jun-2024 15:20

Dochart:

It’s going to be interesting if NZ don’t make the Super 8 and if they will keep the coaches after this tournament.

Yes to Ravindra. We clearly over estimated our ability and grossly under estimated theirs.

Isnt Ronchi still our batting coach? I thought that was an absurd appointment. Surely we can do better. But I also think for t20 ideally you want specialist coaching, batting is middling swing bowling from ball one, that takes extreme hand eye coordination which players like GP have but you still need to practise the most insane bowling to be able to play such bowling. I dont know, maybe we do practise the best possible spin and swing bowling plus outright 155kph pace, but it doesnt look it.

It was definitely the conditions for bowling, boy that ball was going everywhere plus every 3rd one keeping low, no exscuses, AFG simply made the most of the conditions and we were poor in our final 10. We coulda bowled them for 110 or less at one stage given the first 10ov, but we literally dropped the ball, which is also something that has snuck into our side where fielding use to be a major point of difference for our team.

Bond for bowling coach, Vetorri for spin, somebody like Macca again for batting. But I doubt any of them would take those gigs now.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3246212 8-Jun-2024 15:28

Ronchi is still our batting coach and we can select someone better than this. Vettori is spin coach for Australia and Macca is now an assistant coach of the NZ womens team.

Honestly when we lost Bond and Macca as bowling and batting coach this was when NZ started to get worse and lose the plot. Hasn’t been the same since they left.

thermonuclear

605 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3246220 8-Jun-2024 15:45

Dochart: I would have added Ravindra in the side. He played most matches in the IPL but Allen, Conway, Williamson and Phillips have had no recent game time but lets add these players in the side over Ravindra.

If we don’t make it to the Super 8 we don’t deserve it. Refusing to play the warm up matches was a big mistake then selecting players with no recent game time is the worse.

Need to change the coaches after this T20 World Cup for sure particularly the batting coach. I know that won’t happen but we need to look for coaches outside NZ particularly Australian coaches if we want to start winning World Cups. Imagine if we hired someone like Langer or Ponting as the NZ coach.

This result was entirely foreseeable. Was a quick and easy way to turn my $20 into $60 at the TAB today. As Doull mentioned towards the end of the match, only two players today participated in the lead-up series versus Pakistan. Many of today's side were getting splinters in their backsides from Indian Pine. NZ didn't refuse to play warm-ups, they simply couldn't field an XI to play a warm-up due to players prioritizing franchise cricket over the national side. Contrast that with Afganistan who were there two weeks early.

Real shame about the coaching. Can't see Stead stepping down in any circumstance as he's just re-upped, and NZ Cricket appears happy to accept any old tosh from the side currently. Quote from Stead,

"There's a lot of experience in the group who have played in the CPL before, so we'll be leaning on those guys and making sure the trainings we get prior to the first game puts us in a position of where we want to be."

As for batting coach, Luke Ronchi. My views are well known here on that. Has any NZ batter improved his average under Ronchi's stewardship? And, wasn't Stead a specialist batsman at 1st Class level anyway, why exactly do NZ need an average former wicketkeeper to advise the batting unit? Is it because every other national team has a plethora of specialist coaches, so we'd better have one too?

And, don't get me started on the openers, Munro and Seifert must be laughing at home. On what we've seen today, NZ are no chance against the Windies at home next week.

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