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SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #2676357 18-Mar-2021 09:35
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tdgeek:

 

In F1 back in the day, when a car came out with turbo, tyres or wings etc they were totally dominant until the others caught up or the devices were banned.

 

 

That's exactly why I stopped watching the V8s. Instead of innovating, they simply banned. Too many rules made all the cars more or less the same, regardless of brand. That approach kills innovation and moves the competition from design and innovation to being all about the driving. Boring!

 

By all means, allow a challenger to propose a challenge in foiling boats, but don't limit them to a class which must have specific dimensions, weights etc. When the rules start introducing a crew weight limit, they've gone too far.




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  #2676361 18-Mar-2021 09:44
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SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

tdgeek:

 

In F1 back in the day, when a car came out with turbo, tyres or wings etc they were totally dominant until the others caught up or the devices were banned.

 

 

That's exactly why I stopped watching the V8s. Instead of innovating, they simply banned. Too many rules made all the cars more or less the same, regardless of brand. That approach kills innovation and moves the competition from design and innovation to being all about the driving. Boring!

 

By all means, allow a challenger to propose a challenge in foiling boats, but don't limit them to a class which must have specific dimensions, weights etc. When the rules start introducing a crew weight limit, they've gone too far.

 

 

I do get what you mean. I feel weight is important, you might have a crappy boat but if it weighs a lot less, that's huge. Foils had to sit in a dimension box, but they are all different. I guess the challenge is make the boats same dimensions and weight, then do what you like, almost. You just dont want a V8 Supercar vs a Salt Lake flats car of the same length type of scenario. But yes a bit more freedom, but if length and width and weight are even, I think thats a good start 


Fred99
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  #2676415 18-Mar-2021 11:01
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If you want to build an AC75 the 2018 class design rules are here:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZRwGU-q4zGlD1jfStdY2kpzVB9PM96w/view

 

64 pages PDF.

 

If you divide cost by the number of times the boat was used in anger, it would be tens of millions of dollars.




Oblivian
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  #2676419 18-Mar-2021 11:06
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Add that to the $2m entry fee.

It's sure not a poor mans game.

Said on the radio this AM it's about $230M campaign

tdgeek
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  #2676429 18-Mar-2021 11:19
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Oblivian: Add that to the $2m entry fee.

It's sure not a poor mans game.

Said on the radio this AM it's about $230M campaign

 

In past series it was like the billionaires toys to race other billionaires


Handsomedan
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  #2676440 18-Mar-2021 11:49
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I like the idea of sticking with what they've got now and making the courses bigger and more interesting...





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eracode
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  #2676449 18-Mar-2021 12:04
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Fred99:

 

If you want to build an AC75 the 2018 class design rules are here:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZRwGU-q4zGlD1jfStdY2kpzVB9PM96w/view

 

64 pages PDF.

 

If you divide cost by the number of times the boat was used in anger, it would be tens of millions of dollars.

 

 

In broad terms the Ineos UK challenge cost GBP110 m, say $200 m. Including the pre-Christmas races, they sailed 14 races. That’s $14 m per race or about $0.5 m per race minute.





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Fred99
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  #2676472 18-Mar-2021 13:02
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Lizard people were involved in the AC75 canting foil design:


Senecio
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  #2676500 18-Mar-2021 14:19
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Bring back the spinnaker!

 

 

 

But in all seriousness, I think the core principles of the AC75 class are good. Minor tweaks are all that's required before the next regatta. A little freedom in foil selection would be one, just to allow slower boats to experiment more to make up the difference to a faster boat. Strange to say this as the AM takes ~4 months from start to finish but its not a lot of time to go searching for boat speed if you don't have it on day 1.


tdgeek
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  #2676627 18-Mar-2021 17:51
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Senecio:

 

Bring back the spinnaker!

 

 

 

But in all seriousness, I think the core principles of the AC75 class are good. Minor tweaks are all that's required before the next regatta. A little freedom in foil selection would be one, just to allow slower boats to experiment more to make up the difference to a faster boat. Strange to say this as the AM takes ~4 months from start to finish but its not a lot of time to go searching for boat speed if you don't have it on day 1.

 

 

Yep, agree, foil changes would be good, its the same as sails, tweak for todays conditions. Same as Formula 1, su these tyres today, this wing setting, this damper setting, etc. It allows pure boat speed, and pure on water skills to have pure setup strategy added more. The best package, of all three, you should do well.


tdgeek
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  #2676653 18-Mar-2021 18:20
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Interesting article

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/124580478/americas-cup-team-nzs-race-against-time-to-solve-how-to-unleash-the-potential-of-te-rehutai

 

You can argue the boats are even, the first 6 races showed that. They are very different. Different hull design, different foils, different sail choices, different tactics (LR faster out of the start and blocks, TNZ slower to get to speed and chases faster)

 

Two theoretically even packages, where the pros and cons evened out. As time went by, TNZ pro's started to mature, and LR remained closer to where it always was. IMHO

 

By next time, hull design (no secret now), sail choices, foil design (also no secret now) will all have matured and be optimised. It could be well all about skill, not design.


 
 
 
 

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Oblivian
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  #2676676 18-Mar-2021 18:36
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News around it night hinted that the AC75 was all but decided on as the continuing design for next series package too. Not sure if that comes from the winners or the yet to be named (but likely Ineos and RYS) Challenger of Record

 

Bit I imagine both were stoked with the initial idea and speed. But will at a guess now start evening specs down some more.

 

It also mentioned there may be a no-poach rule where each nation needs a high percentage of origin team.


TwoSeven
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  #2676689 18-Mar-2021 19:00
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I much preferred the old sailing boats with spinnakers, more competitors and closer racing including blocking and luffing. 





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eracode
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  #2676738 18-Mar-2021 21:25
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eracode:

 

GV27:

 

I hope one of the key things that comes out of this is that all the projects that were put on hold for the America's Cup are now bought back to life with gusto. 

 

It's bizarre that other parts of the world build infrastructure and other things ahead of time for events but in NZ we use it as an excuse to not build things. 

 

 

What are all these projects that were put on hold for AC?

 

 

@GV27 I’m really keen to hear of all these projects which were put on hold because the AC was used as an excuse to not build them. I’m not aware of any - can you enlighten us?





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networkn
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  #2676739 18-Mar-2021 21:26
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One of the things that I found amazing during the racing, was when the boats were really going for it, say 45kt+ and they were near each other, and how it demonstrated even more clearly, just how big and how fast those yachts were. There were some moments, especially when they were heading right toward each other, that it nigh took my breath away. It was a shame there wasn't a bit more of it.

 

 


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